The Puffer Forum

Adorable! how big is the vivarium for the 2 of them?

Alright PPG, you got me. I'm going to look at terrariums tomorrow. I've been exploring the internet gathering info. One thing isnt clear to me so far. Life span. I have read 2-3 years in a few places and up to 9 years in a few places. The terrarium is the easy part. Finding the chams is another thing all together. My cousin and his wife have always kept reptiles, so I inquired as to the best place I might find them. They told me to go to a reptile show. I know I can order from a number of places online but it bothers me for several reasons. Quality, prices vary A LOT, and the poor things are in boxes lol. I know people ship reptiles and other animals this way all the time but I just dont care for it. Turns out there is a reptile show this sunday May 16th in Brookpark Ohio. I'm sooo there dude. Lol. If you wouldnt mind sharing any good sites to gather info I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

Tigerlilly - the terrarium I have mine in is a 12" x 12" x 18" high, and from the site I got mine from their suggestion is that I can have 3 in a terrarium that size.

JoseDepacos - from the information that I've been able to get, I would say that their lifespan is probably about 2 years, which isn't long, but that's how some animals are unfortunately. I can certainly understand how you feel about buying a chameleon online. When the guy came with ours, I watched from the window as he opened up the back of his truck. The box was laying down and he flipped it over and then as he was carrying it, he was swinging it. Now, just to be fair to the delivery guy, the box, although it did have "fragile" on it, did not have any label saying "live animals" which I would have thought it should have. So really the delivery people aren't to know what's inside, which is wrong I think. Thankfully mine were okay and seemed to have handled the transport part pretty good.
I think one of the things you need to look for is trying to get chams that are captive bred and not wild caught. From my research, the captive bred ones tend to live a bit longer, as the wild caught ones can be severely stressed and will sometimes die sooner. The ones I got are captive bred. I think your idea about going to a reptile show is a very good idea. We were going to do that, as there's a big show coming in June, but I am not the most patient person and wanted them sooner than June, so that's why I ordered from a website. But I will say that I did do research and read alot of comments on a forum for pygmy chams, and found that this guy I got mine from has a very good reputation, and that meant something to me.
As to sites, well there's probably some good ones that are US-based, but obviously I wanted something focused on the UK -- so here's the forum I joined: http://www.pygmychameleon.co.uk
And this is the actual site that I bought mine from: http://www.junglebugs.co.uk
But if you simply put "pygmy chameleons" into your search engine, it will bring up anything to do with them and probably some US forums as well I would think. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but I'm totally new to all of this myself. In fact, I guess I sort of jumped off into the deep end with getting these guys, but hopefully I will do everything right and keep them living and have them breed. If I could stress one thing I'd have to say not to handle them as much as possible. I have read that stress is a very serious thing for them. So I intend on leaving mine in their terrarium, at least for a full 2 weeks and then I might try to handle one, but then again I might not.
Good luck and please keep me informed, I'd love to hear if you get one or not.

Thanks PPG. Thats the exact terrarium I think I'm gonna get. The dimensions are the same anyway. I'm really excited about the reptile show. Hope I can find some.

I would be surprised if you didn't see any at that reptile show, and you will probably get them at a good price too, as I've heard the shows have very reasonable prices on them.

JoseDepacos wrote:Alright PPG, you got me. I'm going to look at terrariums tomorrow. I've been exploring the internet gathering info. One thing isnt clear to me so far. Life span. I have read 2-3 years in a few places and up to 9 years in a few places. The terrarium is the easy part. Finding the chams is another thing all together. My cousin and his wife have always kept reptiles, so I inquired as to the best place I might find them. They told me to go to a reptile show. I know I can order from a number of places online but it bothers me for several reasons. Quality, prices vary A LOT, and the poor things are in boxes lol. I know people ship reptiles and other animals this way all the time but I just dont care for it. Turns out there is a reptile show this sunday May 16th in Brookpark Ohio. I'm sooo there dude. Lol. If you wouldnt mind sharing any good sites to gather info I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

bbbahahahaha look what i started!!!!!! i got PPG into the pygmies... soon, we are going to have to change this from the puffer forum to the pygmy forum

i know you said you didnt like the idea of buying online, but if worse comes to worse, http://flchams.com/inventory_all.asp?id=1027&cham=Pygmy go here. they are one of the most trusted cham sellers in the US. they currently only have 2 kinds of pygmys in right now one of them being the same kind as PPG, the other being much more expensive, so not a beginner species by any means. almost everyone on chameleonforums.com has used it, or at the very least, they all know their reputation... they all love it over there. if they didnt arrive healthy, the site wouldnt have such a high reputation.... just thought you might want to know but hopefully you will find some at the show.

i think there are many things to consider when figureing out how long your cham will live 2-9 years is a big gap, i would assume different species, proper habitats, and care would all be factors

when my veiled cham dies, ive thought about replacing him with a whole bunch of pygmies like just have a big colony of them, thought it would be kinda cool but im so sprung on the big guys, im sure id just get another veiled

Well, the only downside to the pygmies is that you can't keep more than one adult male in an enclosure unless the terrarium/viv is really big, because they will fight and will hurt each other too. So they recommend having one adult male with a harem of females. Personally I like the look of the girlies better, just something interesting about them. However, so far Kitty, my female, seems to stay put in one spot while Burt tends to roam around checking things out.
Who's to say you can't have several small terrariums with different pygmies in them? I would like to get at least one other pygmy species, just to see how different they are. But I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing for my pair first, so I won't be getting anymore at least for a month or more, just to make sure everything is okay.
But I am not at all sorry kilofey that you got me interested in these. I don't think I could deal with something as big as your Picasso, even though he is gorgeous .... but I'm absolutely loving the pygmies and I think my husband is pretty impressed too. So thank you again!

yea, the big ones are much more difficult to keep, financially wise... if they get sick, you almost feel obligated to take them to the vet until they are well... im in almost 1000 in vet bills now for picasso *ugh* he has an eye condition i wasnt aware of until i brought him home and took a good look at him im not sure i could have walked away even if i had noticed it though because the lady was basically abusing him with his viv conditions. he had like one plant, one vine, and thats about it. his basking temp was very low 60s, around 61-62*F , i dont know what it should be for the little guys, but for the bigger ones, it should be around 80-90*F in the basking are and around 70*F-ish at the bottom of the viv.

oh, did you read to mist with hot water? its better to mist with hot hot water because the air cools it down. keeps them comfy. the lady i bought him from misted with regular room temp water, AND the cage was scarry cold, this guy was basically freezing to death. hes on a med now for a sinus infection (which can cause eye swelling) the vet thinks that his previous tank temps could have caused the sinus infection, kind of like a chamelon cold, but it can be deadly if left untreated

anyway, i LOVE my big boy, but stick with the little ones for sure, much much cheaper!

I'd love one of those I don't think I'd be allowed though.

Edit: Actually.. I could have that size vivarium in place of my shrimp/snail tank (which is failing badly)... after my holiday and paying my gran back maybe I'll join you all in the latest lizardy loving <3
I'm sure nobody would mind me replacing a small tank with another different type, I'd be paying right haha xD

Yes, you have started something. I just got home with my terrarium. Bought the small Exo-Terra rainforest kit. I'm not certain if I want to use the substrate included. Everywhere I have read seems pretty insistant on coconut husks. And all the places I've read say room temp is perfect or 65-87F. Apparently overheating is the highest kill rate of the pygmies. Therefore no heat lamp is needed. They say to make certain to use low wattage bulbs and lighting isnt nearly as specific with this species. What bulb are you using PPG? I think I'm gonna go with the 13w Exo-Terra 5.0 tropical bulb. I just hope it puts off enough light. It should. Its a small terrarium. Good call on the hot water misting. I didnt think of the fact it cools so quickly. Any reccomendations for water treatment?

The substrate I've used is a thin layer of the Exo-Terra Coco Husk tropical terrarium substrate, then I filled it in with Komodo Tropical Terrain Compact Block, then I put another thin layer of the Exo-Terra Coco Husk on top. Both of them retain water nicely and I think that's important. I've also planted my plant directly into the substrate. If you do put any live plants in the terrarium, you need to completely wash away any soil and also lightly wash the leaves to remove any pesticides or fertilisers. I think I have the exact bulb that you are thinking of getting JoseDepacos. Trust me, it puts off plenty of light. Right now, it's fairly cold here in the UK and I'm struggling to get my humidity up in the terrrarium, even with misting ... so I've gone and ordered the Exo-Terra rainforest heat mat. It should arrive tomorrow. Thing is, it's going to heat up the substrate enough to put off more humdity and that's what I need. That's why I got the "rainforest" one, it's not as strong. I don't think I will need to use it all the time, but while it's so cool as it is, I think I will need to. The humidity is supposed to be 80-90% at the bottom of the terrarium and I know it's not anywhere near that. I'm due to be getting a digital hyrometer in the next few days as well, which will give me a more exact reading.
But you are definitely right, heat is the main killer it seems to be with these little guys. Daytime temps are to be between 65-80F, and no more than 80F max! My information says night time temps can dip to 60F with no ill effects.
I had no idea about using warm water to mist them with though, as I've been using room temperature water. But I don't spray the water directly onto them because I've found that they don't like that. So I spray the wall of the terrarium, or the back wall, or into the plant, and definitely into the substrate.
I don't know if you've read it Jose - but don't give them a water dish, they can drown. They can drink water from what accumulates on the leaves of the plants and on the glass too. And try and use live plants more than plastic ones if you can.

Kilofey -- I think it's disgusting that someone would have something as beautiful as your Picasso and would only sparesely decorate his enclosure. The poor guy, but at least he's with you now and I'm sure you are giving him the life and comfort that he deserves. So that's what you need to think about. He's very fortunate that you have him now.

Yes I did read the water bowl thing. I will be using mine as a feeding dish, throwing in a couple of crickets or worms. They say that they wont drink standing water anyway. It has to be dripping off the leaves. Good deal on the bulb. I still need to pick up a few things. Bulb, calcium dust, water treatment, a spray bottle, and something to keep crickets in.

jose- this is just my opinion, but i personally do not treat my water with anything because their eyes are so susseptable to infection and other ickies that i would not risk putting any chemichels in the water. i may be wrong on that, but i personally dont do it for that reason.

PPG- be careful with that heat mat. make sure its burried good & deep. they say not to use heat mats for chams because they love the warmth so they tend to stand directly on top of it, its not uncommon for their little feet to burn.

tigerlilly- you know you want one!.... or a few *bump*

"DUSTING"
all the threads ive read about dusting pretty much all agree on this schedule:
calcium WITHOUT d3- every other feeding
calcium WITH d3- twice a month
multivitamin- once a month
(multivitamina and calcium WITH d3 should be used on different weeks)

hope that helps a little... dusting is so subjective in the cham world and really, it can be quite confusing. you always want to make sure they are getting the proper vitamins but everyone seems to have a different opinion. that schedule is the only one ive found that more than one person actually agrees on lol... a good majority of the people on chameleonforum.com agree with it... however, its always up to the individual cham owner. do whatever works for you. you may have to find the calcium WITHOUT d3 online... i have personally never seen it in a store. i cant remember the site i bought it from, but when i remember ill post it here. they have ridiculously reasonable prices. i bought my uvb bulb for 15 bucks shipped, typically sold in stores for around 30

BTW, hooray for jose for jumping on the chameleon band waggon im so excited for you!

kilofey wrote:BTW, hooray for jose for jumping on the chameleon band waggon im so excited for you!

Thanks. I'm very excited too. I'm really hoping to find a couple this weekend at the show. I'm thinking two females. I looked more into the water thing and read that most just use tap water. I was concerned because my well water has a ton of iron in it. I will just use bottled I suppose. Thanks for the dusting schedule. What I read said every feeding. My local Pet Supplies Plus has the bulb I require on sale for $10. Yay! I was also considering the smallest heating pad that goes "under" the terrarium, not in it. So small it would only be under like a 1/4 or one corner of it. This way if I need additional heat I can just turn it on.

Yes, I should have specified that I intend on putting the heat mat UNDER the terrarium, not inside it at all, because the one I've bought is intended to be put under the bottom of the terrarium, so it will emit heat through the glass and up through the substrate. I don't think there's anyway the pygmies will be able to get hurt. It's just that right now, it's very cold here in England, and my humidity isn't very high at all .... and I don't want them to suffer because of that. Hopefully the heat mat turns up today so I can get that going and get their terrarium warmed up.

As to water, I would not think of treating mine. I use tap water, although I suppose bottled water would be a better option in the long run.

In regards to dusting, the site I bought mine from says to do it twice a week. But I sent a message to the owner of the site and he said he personally doesn't feed his chams every day, he feeds them every 2 days. We decided every other day, but with less food. I'd rather them have less food more often than more food less often, but that's just me. He did say that people often find their own feeding schedules. We've not dusted the crickets yet, but I think today being their next feeding day that we're going to have to dust them today. I wanted to make sure they were eating before I did that, but we've found parts of crickets in the terrarium as well as the crickets disappearing, so I can only guess that they are eating.

We can't wait to hear what kind of goodies you get at the reptile show this weekend Jose, should be very exciting. I wish our big reptile show was sooner, but maybe it's a good thing it's not. Perhaps by the time our show comes around I will know whether I am doing the right thing or not with the ones we have, and then I can decide if I need to get another or not. I can have one more female, so I might be looking to get one if I go to the Doncaster show.