The Puffer Forum

Heehee, thanks! They wrote back and told me that they weren't sure if it had changed or not and were still waiting for a response from Quality Control. I asked them how hard it could possibly be to find out the main ingredient, or is it a big secret? And are they not aware that if they have not changed the formula, as previously stated, then they are breaking federal law by using an incorrect label? I can't wait to see what they come up with now.

By the way, we now have hundreds of upset betta owners who are throwing away packages of Hikari or canceling their decision to order it, and who may entirely boycott all of their products. We were all pretty distressed to learn that our first alternative, Atison's, is also a poor option - although it's probably the highest-quality food on the market (the only reason more people don't use it is that it's a bit hard to get ahold of), Atison fights his fish. Now quite a few of us are boycotting him as well. I'll continue to use his food, simply because it's such high-quality stuff and high-quality food for bettas is hard to find, but I won't be purchasing any of his other products, or his stunningly beautiful fish. I really would have liked to have one of his fish, but that's entirely off the table. Oh, well, I do want to minimize betta purchases in favor of adoption. So many bettas are in foster care, waiting for homes. I plan to adopt a couple females this summer - it's hard to find homes for females.

Did you tell Hikari that?

Yeah, and they have the link to the thread on Ultimate Bettas where we've been discussing it. They can see everyone who's upset and saying they're throwing away their food, not ordering it, deciding to recommend Atison's or Azoo instead, and discussing alternative brands.

the power of ze internet hey -

its crazy how things can be achived on the net - ill keep an eye on this just to see the outcome

I have Top Fin for mine, do you know where that stands in the betta food groups?

The ingredients:
"Fish meal, shrimp meal, soybean meal, wheat flour, corn gluten meal, fish oil, squid meal, yeast, calcium propionate, rice bran, proteinase enzyme, garlic, brine shrimp, astaxanthin, spirulina, red algae, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, vitamin a acetate, choline chloride, a -tocopheryl acetate, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, thimain mononitrate, biotin, pyridoxine HCl, folic acid, d-activated animal sterol, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin K3 supplement, inositol, calcium iodate, dicalcium phsophate, copper sulfate, sodium selenite, cobalt chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, magnesium sulfate, manganese sulfate."

Looks good to me. You want at least the first ingredient to be a meat product, and when an invertebrate (such as shrimp) is high on the list, that's even better.

However, it's important that you use a variety of foods. I mentioned all the foods that I rotate earlier in this thread. That should give you some ideas. Also, here's an article on betta nutrition.
http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=6655

LilGreenPuffer wrote:we have done a significant amount of research to be sure there is no negative impact to the bettas who would eat this diet............. we have always, and will continue to, base our diets on scientific evidence and not speculation about one ingredient or another.

did you ask how this "research" was conducted? could they possibly be doing animal testing? the way they word it seems to indicate they test different formulas on their bettas. maybe something to bring up too......

anyway, i admire you being so compassionate about what you feed your bettas... not a lot of people put that much thought into it... good for you just thought id give you a little mroe fuel for the fire in case youd like to use it, i love stirring up trouble lol. good luck!

They're testing fish food...you want to volunteer to be the person that eats it and tells the Betta's its good along with with the evidence based research?

I've never been a fan of Hakari's pelleted fish food. I find it strange that they would use MSG as a food attractant when some form of garlic extract seems much more natural and common in the aquarium industry.

With that aside, the majority of the fish I own refuse to eat Hakari brand pellets, and I've only ever had luck using their vitamin enhanced freeze dried line of products and their frozen food selection.

For pellets, I've always gone with New Life Spectrum. I have yet to have a fish turn this stuff down.

Here is a list of typical ingredients used in the majority of their products:

Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Choline Chloride.

As for flake food, I generally go with Omega One or Ocean Nutrition. I believe Ocean Nutrition advertises that 50 percent of their flake food consists of whole raw seafood. If memory serves me correct, Omega One flake foods have a similar ratio. I rotate between New Life Spectrum and Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef flakes to feed my clownfish and cardinals.

Here is a list of ingredients for Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef flakes: A fresh seafood mix including (salmon fillets, Euphausia pacifica plankton, squid, salmon eggs and/or salmon egg oil, Euphausia superba plankton and/or krill hydrolysate, sea clams and/or sea urchin, kelp, herring, adult brine shrimp, and brine shrimp nauplii), MPAX (Marine Protein Amino extract: fish meals, hydrolysate, and select amino acids (arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, cystine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine), wheat flower, egg, lecithin, magnesium sulfate, vitamin premix (ascorbic acid, stabilized Vitamin C, dl-alpha tocopherol acetate, d-pantothenic acid, riboflavin, niacin, menadione, folacin, cholecalciferol, biotin, thiamine, retinol, pyridoxine, and cyanocobalamin), carotenoid pigments (canthaxanthin and/or astaxanthin), artificial color, ethoxyquin (a preservative).

If you can find it, I'd try giving New Life Spectrum a shot.

I do use a good bit of Spectrum myself. The rainbows love the stuff.

Yes, I'm planning to order some New Life Spectrum from kensfish.com, as well as Ken's betta crumbles. I'm putting one of my bettas on a weight-gain regimen*, and a friend of mine who's into rescue and rehab suggested NLS's Grow formula, and of course lots of live and frozen. Between that special need and this Hikari incident, I'm going to be ordering sooner than expected.

Ocean Nutrition sounds great. I'll try ordering some of that later. Flakes have to be pre-soaked to prevent constipation, which bettas are absurdly prone to, but with nutrition like that, it would be more than worth the extra hassle.

kilofey, I'm sure it's important that they test their products on animals. They are, after all, products for animals. Animal testing becomes an issue for me when animals are *harmed* for *human* benefit. But I'd really rather not feed my betta something that hasn't been tested on other bettas, and I don't think any animals were harmed in the testing process.

*The silly thing has a tiny mouth, and he might be partially blind, poor thing. He has trouble with even tiny pellets like Atison's. I have to crush everything for him, which results in him just not getting quite enough, and, over time, it's become an issue. From here on out, he's getting richer foods, even if that means cutting out some of that all-important variety.

I use NLS and my female bettas love them. I had some 0.5mm left over and they love that.

Js

LGP, it's highly likely that the fish that are included in the studies are sacrificed after. I would fall off my chair if they weren't. Bettas are cheap and that's the easiest way to determine the effects the food has on the muscle tissues, digestive system, etc. They shouldn't just be looking at colour and prettyness on the outside. If they aren't sacrificing those bettas then I would worry about the actual knowledge behind the food. There's more to nutrition than eating, pooping, and looking pretty. Sorry hun.

Welp, not much I can do about that. If that's the case, then all the companies will be doing that, and I can't avoid it. Maybe one day I'll have the time, money, and resources to come up with my own formula, but for now I have to make do with what's available to me.

Oh yeah I would think they are carrying out necropsies, the dog and cat food industry do it all the time but you don't hear about it.