The Puffer Forum

dats just wrong... seriously

cant scientists come a way to grow shark fins on rats in labs....hehe

im pretty sure ive seen somewhere where there was an ear growing on the back of a rat in a lab...

crazy.. people trying to play God...?!?!


guess thats another ethical issue there....

I was under the assumption that puffers weren't eaten as a resource of nourishment only a trend? Wasn't the whole point the lip and tongue numbing effects of the poison (and bragging rights). I dont get it, wouldn't no poison, mean no point.

Unless it tastes good... Besides, everything we eat is a nourishment resource.

The toxin also causes euphoria.

I have to say, that is one of the best articles I've ever seen on this.

Pufferpunk wrote:

However, eating non-toxic puffers can be a fatal experience, too: try it in front of Pufferpunk...

Grrrrr... poor puffers! Especially the cutie in that article.

I just find it funny how people think it's ok to eat one animal over another.

I simply can't understand how someone can think that a puffer is more deserving of live over a cow or pig... I tend to place a value on life itself and not the shape it comes in (as I do with people).

Eat whatever you want, I'm OK with that but it's not right to say that one animal deserves to die and another doesn't.

I do understand. I haven't eaten mammals in over 3 years. i have no excuse to eat poultry & seafood, except I need to get my protein somehow & I just don't see them as cute.

Can't you get the same protein from animals as you can from plant matter? I think that by eating a variety of proteins from varying sources of plant matter, you can nearly or completely replace the protein that is consumed in meats. Someone might have to verify this though.

Yep, it's true. We can get all the protein we need from non-animal sources. Often times you have to eat more though as things like iron and protein are harder to get from vegetables than meat. Certain veggies actually contain way more than meat however we aren't able to process all of it.

I'm not sure I could. I don't really eat that much meat, lots of veggies & fruit.

I am a meat eater, and do not really understand judging some animals/fish/inverts okay to consume and others not. The pufferfish is a special case. Most consumption is for the slight effect of the toxin present in very minute concentrations in the edible meat. They are not always toxic. It is seasonal, from their diet.

The Japanese gentleman that I corresponded with for a while some years back had fished for and consumed puffers from a bay, apparently low BW. The family was very poor and his fishing was for food and nourishment for the family. When the side effects were felt, the puffer fishing was over for the season.

Puffers do not have the systems for generating the original toxin (almost certainly bacterial in origin), but can handle and store it in what made be a somewhat modified forrm (i.e., not identical to what they consumed).

First world folks have little problem getting an adequate diet if they make the effort to study the foods they consume. Much of the rest of the world does not have that luxury. Without animal protein, they would be in serious trouble. Whether you agree with easting animal protein or not, to many it is not a philosophic question, but survival.

If you condemn meat-eating, you might as well join the PETA folk and condemn pets as well. Pets for fish-keepers are either taken from the wild or farmed a are livestock for eating. I see no significant over-riding philosophic difference between farming for food animals and farming for pets, or wild-harvest for food or for pets.

All IMHO of course, YMMV, and that is your choice.

I in no way condemn meat eating. Actually the opposite--I believe humans are meant to consume meat. My problem is how those food animals are treated their entire lives, & butchered mercilessly. I refuse to be a part of that torture.

Pufferpunk wrote:I in no way condemn meat eating. Actually the opposite--I believe humans are meant to consume meat. My problem is how those food animals are treated their entire lives, & butchered mercilessly. I refuse to be a part of that torture.

More of a welfare thing for you then? I agree with that, I only eat the free range stuff. Stuff from the butchers is best where you know exactly which local farm it has come from.

I believe that some animals were put on this earth to consume, sorry, but I do believe that. For instance, I believe we are more meant to consume cows than horses, horses are not meant for meat-eating. Deer, I think were also meant for consumption.
However, that does not mean I would go out and kill any animal myself. In fact, if it were up to me to capture and kill my dinner, I'd either become a vegetarian right quick, or die from lack of food. I could not kill anything myself.
I do agree with PufferPunk though ... some of the ways that these animals are kept is horrendous. There is such a thing as a humane killing. The animal need not suffer before it's taken for consumption by humans. I think every animal deserves the best life it can get, even if it is going to be someone's dinner.

I think vegetarianism and PETA are very different and certainly do not go together. Not in the least bit. I couldn't possibly stress that enough. PETA is an insane extremist group and being vegetarian is not eating meat, that's not even extreme never mind completely insane.

I see where you're coming from completely (and agree with a lot of it) but I think you're taking the association too far.

I don't know a single vegetarian that supports PETA. I know several vegans (and many that don't support PETA) and one meat eater but not one veggie.

I buy my meat from a local family run store. They buy the meat from local farms. Each piece of meat is labeled with the breed as well as the farm it came from. All of these farms raise their animals somewhat naturally (they live outside in fields, grass fed, not grain, many are organic but not all). I will buy and eat meat from places that treat their animals kindly. I don't have a problem with killing, I have a problem with inhumanity. The farms also allow visitors.

I also believe that life is life, regardless of the package it comes in (especially so in vertebrates, invertebrates are too diverse for me to make such a statement).

riggers wrote:

Pufferpunk wrote:I in no way condemn meat eating. Actually the opposite--I believe humans are meant to consume meat. My problem is how those food animals are treated their entire lives, & butchered mercilessly. I refuse to be a part of that torture.

More of a welfare thing for you then? I agree with that, I only eat the free range stuff. Stuff from the butchers is best where you know exactly which local farm it has come from.

My problem is I don't cook. If i did, i could by "happy meat" from Whole Foods but since I don't, I have to eat what's in prepared foods, so i stick to poultry & seafood. I do buy free range eggs for Hubby.

LOL @ PP! Just as an FYI, I grew up on a smallish cattle farm, Angus for local processing and sale, plus the hands had some pigs and chickens for their own table use. Our own-use beef was grain fed and harvested young as pure prime meat (wasteful but delicious). Now I am married to an impressive management executive type,who escapes from the everyday world by being a superb cook (and also a musician). I am spoiled rotten on foods. Every cuisine in the world shows up regularly at dinner - wonderful stuff! Last night was a simple 3-cheese pasta with chunk tomatoes in a delicious sauce. Technically vegetarian to some and definitely Italian, but excellent and comforting on a cold and windy night near the solstice. Tonight, who knows? But it will be delicious - that you can count on. She has a very special knack there, which I cherish, and relish

But food rearing and prep and .processing does matter a lot, no issues there. I cannot even remember the last time I had a commercial hamburger - it has been decades.. We do some at home, but from selected meat cuts from the "right" stores turned into chopped meat in our kitchen, and grilled there. Fast food is not me, no thank you.

There are some things I do not care to eat anymore, veal, for example, which i do remember as being delicious, but I consider the veal production process inhumane (we did not do that on the farms, for just that reason, nor was it served at my family home).

Overall though I really cannot see significant differences between various animals used for food by various cultures to discriminate against some for philosophic reasons. Some I may well dislike for preparation technique, others for flavor, but not for philosophy.

But taste and selection are by long standing, inarguable. To each his own. And puffers for pets are not to the natural world very different from puffers for food. Until we can bred them for the hobby and have tank-bred puffs readily available, that will remain the case in my philosophy. After we can do that, we can label them pets and all captive bred. Until then they are wild animals captured as pets or for food. They are not domesticated as are Angelfish, guppies and many, many other pet fish.