The Puffer Forum

I think when one feeds any type of frozen/fresh/live food as the main or only food source, you will risk health issues from a lack of certain nutrients, or in some cases, such as possibly krill, an excess in certain naturally occurring substances.

Exactly! BTW, the only species I've actually heard of developing lockjaw so far, is the Diodon Holocanthus.

Pufferpunk wrote:

I think when one feeds any type of frozen/fresh/live food as the main or only food source, you will risk health issues from a lack of certain nutrients, or in some cases, such as possibly krill, an excess in certain naturally occurring substances.

Exactly! BTW, the only species I've actually heard of developing lockjaw so far, is the Diodon Holocanthus.

And isn't that been mainly with freeze dried krill, or am I mistaken?

I believe frozen krill causes the same thing.

Frozen/freeze dried, it wouldn't make a difference as the same nutrients would be available to the fish in either form.
I guess the good news is that it only appears to be affecting Diodon Holocanthus.

Not to totally derail this discussion, but some of you might find the following info interesting as well. (with regards to shrimp/prawns)

Many species of fish & invertebrates contain thiaminase and when ingested in large quantities it destroys the natural thiamin (vitamin B1) which in turn can cause vitamin deficiency. In fish, vitamin B1 deficiencies can lead to stunting, illness, and premature death. Goldfish feeders are known to be high in thiaminase, as are shrimp/prawns, both of which are commonly used to feed large predatory species in captivity.

After several years of studies by several teams of scientists, a massive die off of approx 450 alligators in Lake Griffin Florida has been connected to the high thiaminase content found in the local Gizzard Shad.
http://myfwc.com/gators/research/Griffi ... report.pdf

In the Great Lakes region, vitamin B1 deficiencies have also been the cause of a great deal of studies, and have been linked to both trout & salmon ingestion of alewifes & smelt, both known to be high in thiaminase.

http://www.glsc.usgs.gov/main.php?conte ... s_thiamine


With regards to both tropical & marine fish, the article below by Dr. Marco Lichtenberger is perhaps one of the best reads on this subject.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/ ... minase.htm

HTH

I really wish you would post this on Puffer Queen's forum! Pretty please???

Aren't you two girls on talking terms?

That discussion is over 2 yrs old, and it doesn't appear that anything definitive has been discovered with regards to krill, and lockjaw. No real updates beyond the first post, and it appears to have fizzled out. From what I've been reading tonight the same "lockjaw" condition appears to take place with Lionfish, yet again, I can show you photos of Lionfish that have been eating krill based commercial food for years, and the fish are some of the healthiest looking Lionfish that I have ever seen. But of course this is with a well balanced food, that contains far more than just krill. I'm actually a bit blown away that anyone would feed their fish nothing but krill, just as I would be if someone fed their fish nothing but shrimp, or nothing but bloodworms. Of course the diet is going to be nutrient deficient, that seems like a no brainer to me. Unfortunately due to those discussions krill is now being referred to as "nutrient deficient", by many forum members.
Using that type of logic the same could be said about many food stuffs.

I'm actually a bit blown away that anyone would feed their fish nothing but krill

You're kidding, right? How long have you been posting on forums (sounds like you've been around for quite some time)??? There are a LOT of very lazy people, fishkeepers included... It's way easier to toss in a few krill than defrost or buy a variety of foods for their fish. Especially fish stores, who may keep them for months before selling & of course, tell the buyer, "Yeah, we've just been feeding him krill--he likes it!". I have had to educate many, many stores on this.

I've never said they aren't nutritious though.

I've been around longer than I care to admit. lol Most of the LFS's in these parts would be too cheap to feed krill, it's not like it's an inexpensive food. Bulk flakes/pellets would be more the norm, or for species such as puffers, bloodworms, but most of the better stores have clued in as to how important a quality diet is, especially for new arrivals, and especially for those species that have gone through the stress of being collected in the wild, moved from one facility to another, and transported long distances.

To be honest, what I have seen on the various forums over the past several yrs is that most hobbyists tend to believe in feeding a wide variety of food, even when feeding commercial products. As though it takes 6 different brands of pellets to meet their fishes nutritional requirements. So when I see some people feeding only one type of frozen or freeze dried food, such as krill, for months on end, I actually do find it rather bizarre.

One of he LFS I had to correct was feeding only krill their beloved porc who was being kept in their pond display tank. They said they had no idea...

Wait just a second.

Pond?

Yeah, an indoor pond. There are several LFSs around here with them.

The large LFS's I frequent have indoor ponds, both fresh and marine. I live the way he has the marine one set up because it is in two levels and the upper half is a tidal pool setup..absolutely beautiful! Can't stand the owner but he did an awesome job on that pond.

I've never heard of a marine pond. Neat. Tide pool... ooh...

I thought the porc was with the goldfish and koi!

Yeah, if I get my new house built in the near future I will have him come build one like that. Guy may be a real hamster, but he owes me a few grand and some credit on a snake breeding project and we could call it even.

Getting back to krill, I had no luck at all in getting any of my puffers to eat it, so maybe that's a good thing.

Also I have a Palembang, lovely puffer he is, he's currently sharing a tank with my suvattii and they get along very well. Up until recently, I had two suvattii and the Palembang all together, but one suvattii recently died (no idea why). My Palembang is very gentle, and he will not eat if I stand and watch him. I breed guppies and I recently put some bigger ones in the tank and I've noticed that the big ones have disappeared. Funny thing, I've seen my Congo eating guppies many times in the past, but I have yet to see either the suvattii or the Palembang catching a live fish, but I know they must be doing it because they disappear. My Palembang mainly eats shrimp, and every once in a great while, he will take bloodworms, but not often.
I guess mine's about 4", maybe a little more. Beautiful puffer too.