GSP with Mouth Problems

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by bigfatfish »

Dadof4 wrote:Like I said earlier, I think this is fungal. Try something stronger than Pimifix.
But what though! It seems that suitable antibiotics are more readily available in the USA, but over here I keep drawing blanks. :?: :?:
I feel quite depressed about him tonight. I have just had to clear his mouth of the white fleshy stuff having only done it yesterday. He is keen to eat & is hunting for the food & aiming at it, but he keeps missing. His eyes seem sunken & I think this has affected the way he sees? I really think that he is on borrowed time now & whilst I want him to survive this, what can I do if he can't eat? I have managed to hold some food as he goes for it & move at the last second, so that he gets it. He doesn't have age on his side & he has done pretty well to get to 10. :crying:
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by Pufferpunk »

Can you bring the white stuff to a vet to have him look at it under a microscope & tell you what it is?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by bigfatfish »

I'm not sure microscopy would tell us much. Thought about sending a sample to the lab for histology, but I really think that it will be too little, too late.
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by Pufferpunk »

Depending on how $$$ it is, it couldn't hurt.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by bigfatfish »

He seems brighter this morning & his tummy is white again. His appetite is still good, but his eyes are sunken & he keeps missing the food as he goes for it. What could cause the sunken eyes - probably just being unwell & older I guess?
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by bigfatfish »

Guess what? There is worse news now! This morning, his mouth is filling up again (going to try & get a sample off to the lab), but now he has the start of a fungus type growth on his tail & reddening of his tail & fins. In 10 years of having him, I have never had any problems with him & now..........I feel helpless.
He is on day 5 of Pimafix in the mornings & day 2 of Melafix in the afternoon. What else can I do?
The water is as it has always been amm/nitrite 0 & nitrate 5-10. I haven't done a water change since starting the Pimafix. I have added a smaller external filter to try & help a larger airstone/pump.
He seems bright this morning, going for the snails in the tank, but cannot actually eat them. & he is enjoying the extra bubbles. His tummy is white.
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by diverchic »

I'm sorry to hear he's having problems... Fingers crossed for you and him!
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by bigfatfish »

Does anyone have any experience of using Interpets Anti Fungus & Finrot treatment? It says safe for ALL species of fish. I have e-mailed the company to check. Just feel that I need something a little stronger than the Pimafix/Melafix. Although it may be a case of kill or cure I guess.
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by Pufferpunk »

Antibiotics don't seem to hurt puffers, just the biological filtration. Also, why aren't you doing WC, while treating? Just do them right before adding more meds.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
bigfatfish
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by bigfatfish »

Pufferpunk wrote:Antibiotics don't seem to hurt puffers, just the biological filtration. Also, why aren't you doing WC, while treating? Just do them right before adding more meds.
It says on the bottle to just do a water change at the end of treatment. I just did a 50% anyway & syphoned through the gravel. I just cleared a big lump from his mouth & dropped it into some formol saline to send to the lab - however, despite that it feels fleshy & solid, it disintegrated, so thats a no go. I think a swab from it might be the next step - but I would need to let it regrow. Also, using a cotton bud dipped in Pimafix, I gave his tail a gentle wipe & the fungus came away. I have added Melafix this afternoon after handling him & at the moment he is ok. I can't see that he is going to be cured of this though, I think its too much for him at his grand old age. His eyes are still sunken & he looks in poor condition. Its a good job I have this week off work - he seems to be a full-time job at the moment. Not that I mind, I just want him well again.
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by Pufferpunk »

As long as you do the WC before each addition of meds, you'll be fine. Might want to swab his mouth with Pimafix, since he lets you handle him so well. How's his appetite?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by bigfatfish »

When his mouth is clear, his appetite is good, its just that he keeps missing the food when he goes for it (I believe this is because of the way his eyes are sunken). I'll keep hand-feeding him & aiming the food in the right direction! I'll have a go at using a little Pimafix in his mouth when it next needs clearing.
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Oh, wow. I agree, go for the stronger antibiotics. Good luck! Fingers and fins crossed!
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by Dadof4 »

This may sound silly and you may have answered it already but, what is your current SG? What I'm wondering is if this is fungal or a bacterial outbreak on the skin, would going the complete opposite way with your SG help? If you're up high, putting him in a FW hospital tank and the other way around. If you SG is 1.010'ish try taking it up or down. My thought process for this has to do with cell structure and oncotic pull. By making a large SG change one of two things can happen. 1) By bring up the SG you can cause a high oncotic pull outside the fungal/bacterial cell causing fluid to move from inside the cell to outside the cell an it basically collapses and die. 2) By dropping the SG you cause a oncotic pull in to the cell causing fluid to shift from outside the cell to inside the cell and causing it to burst (cell lysis). I'm also trying to find a good antifungal that is available in UK.
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Re: GSP with Mouth Problems

Post by bigfatfish »

Thanks Dadof4, that is useful advice. Just to recap his story from another thread - This GSP has been in FW all his 10 yr life (lfs advice when I got him!). When I found this forum, I realised my big mistake, which I wanted to rectify. So, I bought a fab 55Gallon(UK) tank with the intention of making it brackish for him. I wanted to settle him in for a few weeks, then start raising the SG (I have the correct salt & a refractometer at the ready). But all this happened after he had been in the tank a couple of weeks, so haven't started the change yet - should I? I used the anti-fungal/finrot solution by Interpet yesterday, after a 50% water change. Today there is no new growth on his tail or fins. His mouth looks a bit furry though. He looks fat today - not like puffed up - just a fat tummy.
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