The Puffer Forum

17) I'll add scarlet badis (dario dario). They are so small and so skittish that a beginner could quickly get bored with them. Besides, they can be hard to feed and may need target feeding with live foods.

IMHO, any fish can be bad for a beginner and any fish can be good for a beginner. It just depends on how much they have researched and how much they are dedicated to it. Someone who has done the research but isn't committed to doing tank maintenance will not have success any more than someone who knows nothing about cycling, acclimation, fish requirements, etc. I still consider myself a beginner (1-1/2 years in the hobby), yet I've managed to keep 4-5 tanks (have rearranged, etc.) going with a variety of "nonbeginner" fish like German rams and bumblebee gobies. I knew enough or was paranoid enough, I should say, to do a ton of research and ask on here and other forums about the fish I was considering, etc.

bazil323 wrote:17) I'll add scarlet badis (dario dario). They are so small and so skittish that a beginner could quickly get bored with them. Besides, they can be hard to feed and may need target feeding with live foods.

IMHO, any fish can be bad for a beginner and any fish can be good for a beginner. It just depends on how much they have researched and how much they are dedicated to it. Someone who has done the research but isn't committed to doing tank maintenance will not have success any more than someone who knows nothing about cycling, acclimation, fish requirements, etc. I still consider myself a beginner (1-1/2 years in the hobby), yet I've managed to keep 4-5 tanks (have rearranged, etc.) going with a variety of "nonbeginner" fish like German rams and bumblebee gobies. I knew enough or was paranoid enough, I should say, to do a ton of research and ask on here and other forums about the fish I was considering, etc.

totally agree with this!!! I have also only been keeping fish for about 2 years and right from the start I had a few different puffer species and now I have 6 tanks and 5 different puffer species and community and ciclid tanks. It all depends on commitment and education.

This list is really good though because a lot of people are very confused with how large fish can actually get. When we all go the LFS and see 1-5" fish we usually see there beauty and not the size or temperment. I know I have fallen prey to that a time or two or three....haha

18) fire, zig zag, tire track eels: get very large and long i saw a tire track the other day at LFS that was easily over 2' long and 4" around.

19) chinese algea eater: i saw one at the same LFS that was 1.5' long. I couldn't imagine how old it was cause my three have hardly reached 5" but it was masive. It might have also been a different species but they listed it as a chinese algea eater and it looked just like one...just on steroids.

CAEs dont grow to 2' in length - even Fishbase, which tends to note larger lengths based on those recorded in the wild, has it down as just under 1' (11" specifically).

I agree with your addition of the false eels which are seen in the hobby: fire eels, especially, are very picky eaters and are definitely not a fish for newcomers to the hobby: I know someone who is actually experienced at keeping unusual fish (e.g. she has a 6' tank with a 2' gibbiceps which hand feeds, among other things) who continually had problems with getting fire eels to eat (garden worms seemed to work, but even then...they were picky). Tire track eels are the largest of the false eels seen in the hobby (~36" or 3' in length), and all of them require specific decor such as a smooth, granular substrate (like sand, or eco-complete) so they don't hurt themselves while burrowing. Definitely a good addition to the list.

coldmachineUK wrote:CAEs dont grow to 2' in length - even Fishbase, which tends to note larger lengths based on those recorded in the wild, has it down as just under 1' (11" specifically).

I agree with your addition of the false eels which are seen in the hobby: fire eels, especially, are very picky eaters and are definitely not a fish for newcomers to the hobby: I know someone who is actually experienced at keeping unusual fish (e.g. she has a 6' tank with a 2' gibbiceps which hand feeds, among other things) who continually had problems with getting fire eels to eat (garden worms seemed to work, but even then...they were picky). Tire track eels are the largest of the false eels seen in the hobby (~36" or 3' in length), and all of them require specific decor such as a smooth, granular substrate (like sand, or eco-complete) so they don't hurt themselves while burrowing. Definitely a good addition to the list.

They really aren't that hard to feed, just hard to get on the food at hand sometimes. They can be picky though.

Pufferpunk wrote:I have 2 20 year old elephantnoses...

Very cool! To me, these are extremely interesting fish - almost as interesting as puffers. I tried keeping one of these almost 40 years ago back when I was a kid in high school; I think it lasted about 6-8 months and I was heartbroken when it died. Someday, when I win the lottery, I would like to set up a species tank for this fish and try my luck again. PP, to what do you attribute your success in keeping them alive for so long? I think mine stayed alive as long as it did only because I learned to feed it tubifex worms and earthworms.

As far as the list of "Fishes Not For Beginners", I'm surprised that no one has added "Any and Every Sort of Puffer" to the list.

LOL Probably because this is the Non-Puffer section, but yes, they probably should be on there.

Tiger barbs - because they are so nippy and aggressive, most people don't realize that until they get them home and they kill all their tankmates

Angel fish - beautiful and cute when little, huge and mean when adults

any livebearer - they breed. A lot. Enough said.

(any of these fish can be kept by beginners who do their research and prepare PROPERLY but will really cause problems for someone who just goes out and buys them and throws them in a 10 gallon tank)

Myaj wrote:LOL Probably because this is the Non-Puffer section, but yes, they probably should be on there.
Tiger barbs - because they are so nippy and aggressive, most people don't realize that until they get them home and they kill all their tankmates

I heard that you can reduce aggression by keeping them in schools of at LEAST eight. They take more interest in each other than in their conspecific tankmates. I've never had barbs, though, so I can't attest to that.

I had 5 in my 10 gallon along time ago (yes, overstocked, this is before I started fish keeping 'knowledgable') with a dwarf gourami and they did awesome.

marksrush wrote:

Pufferpunk wrote:I have 2 20 year old elephantnoses...

Very cool! To me, these are extremely interesting fish - almost as interesting as puffers. I tried keeping one of these almost 40 years ago back when I was a kid in high school; I think it lasted about 6-8 months and I was heartbroken when it died. Someday, when I win the lottery, I would like to set up a species tank for this fish and try my luck again. PP, to what do you attribute your success in keeping them alive for so long? I think mine stayed alive as long as it did only because I learned to feed it tubifex worms and earthworms.

Yes, I do believe live worms did the trick for these guys.

CAE are fish from hell... Really nasty and like the common pleco they stop eating algae as they get older... They just suck...

People should stick with SAE/SFF, ABN/BN plecos, etc for algae control...

I'll add a few to the list:
Alligator Gar
Snakeheads
Wels Catfish
Bullhead Catfish

Unless you know what you are getting into ahead of time don't buy them... Especially if you don't have any buddies on monsterfishkeepers.com forum to take them off your hands when they grow into tank busters!

Most of these fish shouldn't even be offered for sale at LFS other than for special ordering or mail order...

It irritates the hell out of me when I see RTC catfish for sale at local fish stores... Well the plus side is they are easy to find people online that will take them when they get too big... I remember at the Baltimore National Aquarium seeing a 5ft+ RTC...and not just one but TWO...they had two that were easily 5ft plus...

And then there are the idiot people that buy juvenile snakehead from ignorant LFS owners and then when they get too big release them in our local waters... Granted they won't breed in our cold water but they eat ALL the native fish in those waters...

By the way if any of you aren't aware of HR669 in the US congress, some nutjob politicians are trying to ban practically every nonnative species of animals from import, export, or interstate transportation in the USA... Check out http://www.nohr669.com for details.

~Ed

Pink Kissing Gourami - These sweet little kissers can be rather aggressive. That and they get pretty big if memory serves me right.

african spotted bush fish, or climbing perch....really pretty little thing when i got it, but at the time i didnt realise that it would quickly grow big enough to easily swallow any small fish( which it did a few times before i actually caught it in the act theyre so shy and gentle, u dont expect it!), they have HUGE mouths

rachy wrote:african spotted bush fish, or climbing perch....really pretty little thing when i got it, but at the time i didnt realise that it would quickly grow big enough to easily swallow any small fish( which it did a few times before i actually caught it in the act theyre so shy and gentle, u dont expect it!), they have HUGE mouths

i love these fish. i had one for a long time (4 years-ish) and loved the thing to death. they do have big mouths, so you need to watch out, but they are very easy to care for.

Jivenjune wrote:Pink Kissing Gourami - These sweet little kissers can be rather aggressive. That and they get pretty big if memory serves me right.

That goes for a lot of gouramis!

I think the biggest problem is misinformation or no information at all. Most people don't research fishkeeping or the fish the intend to get when they go to their LFS. They see something that looks neat, bring it home, throw it in a tank, and expect all to go well. I think this thread has quickly gotten derailed from its orginal intent of warning newbies about some species that are commonly sold but as they get bigger require more care than the average fishkeeper realizes (bala sharks, RTCs, tinfoil barbs, etc). Suggesting that goldfish, angelfish, livebearers, etc are not suitable starter fish is kinda ridiculous. Everyone has to start somewhere.