Mr Green Hates his roomies!

[Bogwoodbruce]

Sorry for your loss

[mrgreen]

I was looking at some 55 and 75 gallons today. Really want puffers. These mollies are busy but not too intelligent.

I did put an ammonia neutrilizer tablet in the tank (well half of one) just to be safe. PH was one step down from normal- i.e. a bit acidic, but not bad. (Didn't test for ammonia.) I also looked up what can be kept in this 5-gallon and it seems just 2 or 3 mollies, 5 neon tetras or one beta.

If I eventually went for a nice puffer set up, I think 75 plus a couple of GSPs would do well. And definitely a test kit! That all means more $...

[Sponge bob]

5 gallon= one dwarf puffer and a otto or two

[edmlfc1]

The best way to get rid of the ammonia is water changes. Even daily water changes may be needed until the ammonia and nitrite are 0.

[mrgreen]

I got a kit with tablets and used 1/2 of one that was for ridding ammonia. (1 tab per 10 gallons.) The mollies were acting normal. Swarmed the food I put in for them this morning, too. As interesting and good for ridding algea as they are, I decided I really want puffers. So I tricked them into getting into a plastic container- 2 at once and then the last one was smart but oh well! (I don't have a net.)- and took them back to the place I'd gotten them (and mr. green). I also took along a sample of water from the tank in my syringe.

I told the woman basically what happened and she tested my water sample. The ammonia was 0. The nitrates and nitrites were very high. She concluded that I'm in the middle of a cycle and after a week, have the water retested. Do you think this is true, or was the ammonia 0 just because of the tablets and the other two aren't likely to come down naturally? Or will they now that the ammonia is gone?

I had a look at the dwarf puffers- called "pea puffers" there- and was supprised at how tiny they actually are. The employee told me I could get 3 or 4 for my 5-gallon, but I'm afraid of territory wars as they grow bigger. Also after my tank crash, I'm afraid of putting ANYthing in the tank anymore, really, nevermind in numbers. I did some reading in pufferpedia and found that at the MOST 2 of these guys could live in a 5-gallon, but see previous comment. The rock I got has lots of nice holes in it of various sizes and hidie nooks so I think a dwarf would be happy. Only have one plant, though (plastic) so maybe another one would be welcome? [Also, the crazy mollies ate the blue off several of the floor covering rocks. (The rocks are clear and the fish had blue poop!)]

I was also told that tiny snails would still be a good idea. As you can imagine, I'm not too fond of that idea lately.

Also, do otos get very big? Will it be able to get all the junk in the rock's nooks n cranies?

I can hear the water from the filter going back into the tank - reminds me that there no fish!

Oh- and are dwarfs also brackish?

[LilGreenPuffer]

The store employee was dead wrong about three or four. One is perfect. An oto, IMO, would fit as far as bioload is concerned, but they're happier in groups, so I'd just go with the DP. (Otos get to be about 1 1/2", max.)

More plants would be good. DPs love plants, real or fake.

I would take the blue rocks out. Doesn't sound too good for the mollies!

The lack of ammonia is probably due to the tablet, yes. The nitrites will come down naturally, but nitrates must be removed - they don't simply "come down." I believe that in a planted setup, this is different, but yours isn't planted, so you'll have to do w/c to get them out.

[mrgreen]

Thanks.

I just realized that dwarfs are FRESH water. That means that the salt in my tank is a bad thing, correct? Will I have to completely recycle?

[LilGreenPuffer]

No, but what you'd have to do is wait until the cycle is done, and then bring the SG down by .002 per week. I guess you could do that during the cycle, but it might impede the bacteria's growth. IMO, the quickest thing to do would be to empty out the tank, add fresh water, and cycle from there, since decreasing SG takes so long. What is your SG currently?

[mrgreen]

Maybe that would be smartest- just do fresh water and start a new cycle, since the nitrates need removing AND the blue rocks, not to mention a new plant needs to go in....

[LilGreenPuffer]

Sounds good to me.

[mrgreen]

The tank is now set up with natural rocks and another plant. I also arranged things a bit better- one plant in front of a nice "cave" in the big rock, for future hiding.

I've treated the water (fresh, not salt). As far as cycling, I don't know anyone with an established puffer tank. Help remind me? As soon as the tank is properly cycled, I'm going to get one dwarf puffer.

[LilGreenPuffer]

It doesn't matter whether it was a puffer tank or not. You could actually go to a LFS and get some used gravel or a used filter, though you would have to be careful, since LFSs' water is often full of diseases. Another option is an instant cycling product. Dr. Tim's and Tetra SafeStart are good. Don't use ANYTHING else. Seriously. NO OTHER BRANDS. (Bio-Spira is good, too, if you ever start another brackish tank, but it's not for freshwater.)

[lilacamy931]

Just to ask I keep hearing these good products to cycle a tank, reading the description on the safestart, it says to add when add the fish...as I and mrgreen would be doing puffers, this is not best product>?? Dr tims and bio-spira don;t think is available in UK sadly. Are either a 'miracle' (as in you can fully prepare with them to cycle the tank fishless?). The only way other than these products for myself is hoping the local LFS will let me have some of their filter/sand (not into rotting a prawn or anything as probably get compliants from partner and flat neighbours!).

Stupid question - when setting up fresh/brackish/salt, is it best to get filter piece or sand from a established tank of the same salinity/type of water? or does it not really matter>? (wondering if changed say FW established into a brackish tank, would the good stuff die off) thanks :0

[LilGreenPuffer]

Well, since the products instantly cycle the aquarium, you would be adding the puffers to a fully cycled aquarium. Yes, these are, as you called them, "miracles." Some people are suspicious of them, but those who have used them like them.

As for your "stupid" question, it is not stupid. It is important to get media from an aquarium at the same SG that you are about to put it into. The reason that one changes SG by only .002 per week is to keep the bacteria alive. Fish can handle way bigger changes than that. So, if you were to take bacteria from a freshwater tank and put it straight into a marine tank, it would die.

[lilacamy931]

LOL thanks LilGreenPuffer, I hope to get some miracle product then!! Thank you for also answering on the sand/filter transference, I had a inkling as much but good to know properly. Off to research which of the products I can get/ or anyone can establish off of.