The Puffer Forum

I am not sure.. I think there might be some potential problems if things don't match up properly (input vs output) and something might run dry or overflow.. No, I can't see that being a problem, oh I don't know.

Anyways, per the above discussion I would think LR would be okay, but a sponge would run the risks of not being rinsed enough and goobered up.

Myaj wrote:I think there might be some potential problems if things don't match up properly (input vs output) and something might run dry or overflow..

yes, that's why most people only don't use two pumps. It never matches up.

Ya think I would have thought about that....I gotta stop thinking and typing before sun up....I don't want to have to build an Ark in my dining room for when it floods.

Idontknow wrote:Although, I am still not clear on why using a canister with freshwater not be a nitrate factory , if they are not cleaned.

You're crystal clear on this one. Canisters DO become nitrate factories if they aren't cleaned, regardless of the water-type they're used in. Since we don't have an easy way to remove the dissolved organics, we have to rely on dilution (water changes) and regular cleaning of the filters.

OK, thanks for clearing that up

Myaj wrote:Ryverrat, I'd be concerned that the sunlight would grow too much algae (macro or nuisance), the filter itself or the hoses will get plugged up, seals will let loose and your entire tank will be pumped/siphoned out onto the floor.

Worst case scenario of course.

Remember nitrates and sunlight are only part of what the algae needs to grow- can limit trace nutrients to keep in check. Also my solandri will eat up to 1/8 a cup of macro algae in a day (have some larger SW snails to help him too) Once again any use of a canister requires that you do maintenance. In this case I am trying for a more self contained nutrient cycle- puffer "fertilizes" water, live rock converts to nitrates, algae uses nitrate and puffer+snails eat algae. Also the pump on the small canister only does 46GPH- pretty weak-would take over 1/2 to empty the tank and my husband is home on medical leave right now- think he may notice.

You can certainly try it if you want. I'm just saying, little pieces of macro algae break off and get stuck, and things can get ugly.

I believe the reason cannisters have a reputation as nitrate factories is complex waste breakdown. Simple protein based wastes, like ammonia and urea, are always converted to nitrate eventually in any tank, fresh or salt. In a salt water tank, it's desirable to reduce water changes to keep costs down and the environment more stable, so other means of reducing complex organic wastes are utilized - live rock(which is slightly denitrifying), DSB(heavily denitrifying), etc etc. You CAN run a salt water tank like a freshwater tank, if keep up the fresh water level water change and other maintenance - it's just expensive and irritating mixing all that salt water. When you are running traditional FW filtration, like sponges or other mechanical media, complex protein and other wastes are trapped, where they slowly break down into ammonia and eventually become nitrates. If these wastes are not trapped as solids, but suspended in the water column, they can be skimmed out before decomposing into wastes that enter the nitrogen cycle. The sponge in your aquaclear is no different from a cannister filter as far as this goes, it's just easier to get to and clean regularly, before this breakdown occurs.

I think I understand now! Thanks!

Can live rock be used to replace the (carbon)filters in most any type of filter? Would it actually work/help?

It can be used in place of any stage of filtration really, but it works better in some types of filters vs others, depending on how they move water. I tend to eliminate mechanical filtration first in SW, but replace carbon with higher end chemical media - I like purigen, chemipure, and clearmax, though I'm thinking of upgrading the clearmax to phosban, which I hear is even more effective, so long as you don't mind the PH drop it can cause if there are lots of phosphates to absorb, or have a calc reactor to feed the water through before it goes back into the tank.

Well....eehm...I don't know what any of that is...
this would be my first saltwater tank, and I've got the DSP and am looking into LR, but most of the books i have looked up on the subject say silly things like "make sure you properly install your aquarium's filtration system-- an improperly installed filter can cause a build-up of harmful biochemicals". When i look at the LFS, they don't exactly have a "saltwater filter" and "freshwater filter" designation to their isles, either. And the sales reps usually look at me like i must be confused whenever i ask them something, without acknowledging that i admitted my condusion itfp.

my rather distracted point being that i don't know if i would be able to find any of that, or even be able to ask locally if they know what it is

Purigen can be harder to find, but the other stuff should not be. In many salt water tanks, only powerheads, skimming, and live rock are used as filtration, and a conventional filter of any sort is only used for chemical media, like the ones I listed.