The Puffer Forum

Sorry I'm late to the party, but FW "Black Spot" is as digenetic nematode infestation, and fish are not the definitive hosts. Birds are. Infected birds poop in the water which must have the right snails, first generation is in the snails, that infects fish where they form hard encysted black spots visible on/in the skin. Stable for years in that form until the fish is eaten by a bird, the cysts hatch out and infect the bird's gut, starting the whole process over. The condition is not at all infectious in captivity in tanks.

What you have/had is not that condition.

Well, we took Gunther to a vet yesterday. $260 later...
She did a swab and all she could tell us without sending it to a lab (another $120) was that there were red cells and white cells and lots of bacteria. Gee, thanks lady!

She gave him an injection of Bicillin and sent us home with 5 more hypdermics to administer ourselves. When we got home, I held gunther while my girlfriend force fed him pulpified krill and vitamins with a syringe. He puffed up a couple of times but seemed to swallow a decent amount of food down. This will likely become a daily habit until he starts eating on his own - it's been 4 weeks since that happened! He's looking pretty skinny...

The epic battle continues...

One other thing (RTR), she mentioned it might be fish TB. She said if that were the case, the tank would need to be thrown out. I said, "wouldn't bleach kill the bacteria" and she said no, not really. This was after she said we should "make his water briney... i think there's something you add once a week for that". Not the most knowledgeable vet in the world, but this was the only clinic that had the brass to even see a fish.

I hope the vet did a culture - it would be helpful to know if the bacteria are gram-positive or gram-negative.

Well I'm glad to see Gunther has some fiest in him today. He was vigorously protesting today's antibiotic injection. He tried to snap at me too! Letting the poor guy rest tonight and will force feed again tomorrow.

Sounds like quite the adventure--for both of you!

My thoughts exactly - holding a 7" puffer and sticking him with a needle is something I hadn't embarked on until today. I swear I saw his eyes widen when the needle went in.

Interesting note about injecting fish: according to madame vet the needle should be placed right next to the spine from above, where there is the most 'meat'. Every day, you alternate the side of the spine and move down towards the tail so you're not affecting the same spot over and over. Obviously, you want to start far enough down from the skull that you're not poking into the brain.

It's been an adventure. I just hope the wee man gets it together soon. It's been a traumatic time, these last few weeks. Looking at pictures of when I had just brought him home, it is clear that he was already carrying some disease. Used to be such a happy puff... Until we forced food down his throat, I was seriously considering euthanizing him. I hope some progress can be made in the next few weeks - this really is our last ditch effort.

I know that puffer's hide is quite tough. How difficult is it to poke thru?

With a sharp needle, it doesn't take a lot of force ... maybe 5lbs pressure. It's a delicate act exerting that force only until the needle goes in, so you don't bruise the tissue. The skin is pretty amazing, I must say. Elastic and weird.

I always wonder what any of my puffers' skin feels like...it looks really elastic, good descriptor.

I had to dissect a suvattii & could barely cut thru the skin. It was like leathery sandpaper.

Yeah, high tensile strength. Unless you have something very sharp like a needle or scalpel, you have to press quite hard in order to get enough friction to make the incision.

Leathery is the right word - despite the fact that these fish are scaleless, there is a definite texture to the skin. Possibly on account of the spines.

Poor guy. He's lucky he's got you and your partner looking after him. Hope he pulls through...I've got a feeling he will.
Pami.

First, this fish has got a conscientious owner - nice to see someone take responsibility for his pet like this.

Is the puff struggling during the injection? We inject thousands of fish with hormones to force spawning at our hatchery (in the dorsal musculature like you are doing) - but before we inject them, we anesthetize them. Makes a huge difference with fish that would beat themselves to death during an injection. Fisheries anesthetics of choice are tricaine methane sulfonate (also called triple2 or 222 - Argent Labs) and more recently, phenoxyethanol.

Unfortunately, I have no idea how puffers respond to these chemicals. The 222 goes into solution best, but some fish go under faster and recover better with pheno. (Maybe somebody else here has tried one on puffers?)

Tough work - injecting a frightened animal who cannot know that you are trying to help him - my hat's off to you.

Thanks Chesapeake...
Sounds like you have a pretty interesting job!

The puff doesn't struggle during the injection. He resists being held at first and it can take a few tries, but once I have him resting in hand I just wait a few minutes for him to get comfortable, and he does. Which is pretty lucky for us!

The force-feeding is a slightly different story. His mouth is in extremely rough shape and obviously causes him pain, so he tends to resist more and puffs up. Holding a puffing puffer is strange... It was more of a half-puff, really. The force-feeding is definitely a two-person job.

I anesthetized him once in order to inspect his teeth when he had first stopped eating, using clove oil - the anesthetic of choice around here.

An update -

The antibiotics are working! I haven't noticed any of the white pus being secreted from his pores, skin bumps are less noticeable, and his mouth seems to be healing (again). Only one more injection left though...

Force feeding has been working too! Tonight the wee man swallowed down nearly an entire syringe. Yay!
He's been swimming around his quarantine tank more, so I guess he's getting his energy back.

Add this one to the symptoms though: curvature of the spine. Columnaris? Fish Tuberculosis?

Things are looking good right now. I'm still concerned about the long-run, though. He needs to start accepting food on his own, and I hope his immune system has been bolstered enough to tackle the disease on his own. Fingers crossed!