Moving Lump GSP

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

1) Tank Parameters
Ph ~7.8-8
Ammonia ~0-0.1ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrates 0ppm
Temperature 73°F

Salinity: 1.0025
Planted: Yes

2) 10gal
• Juvenile GSP
• Nerite snail

3) Frozen brine shrimp, serving once daily unless feeding tank-raised bladder snails. Portions are about the size of his eye or bigger for brine shrimp. I stop when his belly is plump. Bloodworms (every Friday).

Products in tank:
• Aquarium salt
• Marine salt
• Methylene blue
• Baking soda
• Aquasafe chlorine remover
• Flourish Excel

Small water change to remove uneaten food daily. Tank tested weekly and undergoes a water change if needed. Not recently.

4) Added methylene blue and extra aquarium salt.

5) Tank has been set up for around five months. It was cycled through plants and a cup of aquarium water from a Petstore. Tank took two months to fully cycle, and in that time, no life was added.

6) The lump.

I got Frank around two months ago. When I got him he looked healthy and he still does, maybe even better. But a problem occurred overnight.

Frank had a prominent lump on his spine. Even after being well-fed and fat, it remained an anomaly. It’s now shifted down the left side of his abdomen, but now it’s going back up again.

I don’t know what it is. Air? Worm? Rocks?
I feed him until his belly is round, and the next morning he is aerodynamic and slightly slim. I don’t know if it’s a normal metabolism, because I’ve had no experience before. He isn’t sunken in.

I have some worm medication (levamisole - Fritz Expel-P) on the side I’m hesitant to use due to the possibility of nematodes apparently killing hosts when they die.

I love Frank. He was fed low-grade cherry shrimp and bladder snails so I worry it may be worms. I did deworm him when I got him, though found nothing. I hope it passes but it continuing to relocate a bit has concerned me today. It appeared around four days ago.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by GSPFranku on Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32803
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by Pufferpunk »

It could possibly be a tumor or cyst. Are you transitioning to brackish?

Curious why you are using aquarium salt, Meth blue & baking soda? What are your plans for upgrading?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

The aquarium salt was for the small bite marks he received from other puffers in the pet store. They’re mostly healed now.

Meth blue was a cry for help but I did lower the dose due to him being scaleless. I know it’s mostly for exterior aliments but thought it wouldn’t hurt to try.

Baking soda was to raise the pH.

He is transitioning to brackish at the moment. In the future I’m planning to have him in a 40gal+ with brackish plants/java fern with a sand substrate. I’m unsure if I will make him fully marine when he becomes a large adult.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32803
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by Pufferpunk »

Please do not use baking soda. It will cause pH swings which are stressful to your puffer. I recommend aragonite sand as your substrate to maintain the pH around a steady level of 8.
Aquarium salt is also unnecessary as you are using marine salt.
Meth blue is best used as a bath.

library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/

viewtopic.php?t=19348
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

Thank you. I’ll stop the use of baking soda and extra aquarium salt.

I did bathe him in meth blue in a hospital tank, though Some entered the tank when I transferred him back.

Is there anything the lump can be beyond a cyst or tumor?
Thank you for your advice.
Last edited by GSPFranku on Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32803
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by Pufferpunk »

Possible nematode but those usually look different.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

The lump has grown in size and seems to be bringing discomfort to Frank. He seems to be in pain due to sudden juts or bursts of movement. His swimming is somewhat affected.

Could it be an air bubble? It has become more round and is now prominently on his back, almost crossing to the other side.

I didn’t think air bubbles could get there.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32803
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by Pufferpunk »

A large air bubble would cause the fish to be floating on its back, most likely.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

Oh dear, I don’t know what to do.

It’s growing quickly and continues to migrate positions overnight.
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

I uploaded new images which show the progression and its current condition. It’s bound to that one side and doesn’t cross over, though it shrinks and grows, seemingly moving lower and higher at random.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32803
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by Pufferpunk »

If it were my fish, I would tranq with clove oil (1 drop/cup) & try moving the lump towards its mouth, to see if it's just air. You could also try to take a sample of it with a needle & ask your vet to look at it under a microscope.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

The lump has crossed over to the right and eventually came to the top of his head.

I’m unable to take a picture due to the fine details of it but there seem to be pin-point pores on his head where the bright green spot is. They are not clustered and generally evenly distributed and slightly red.

I’m unsure what to do with this information.

Please tell me what you think? It would mean a lot. He’s a lovely fish and I don’t want to treat him with the wrong stuff.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32803
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by Pufferpunk »

If it is not affecting his ability to swim (being an air pocket), then the only thing left is a Nematode worm. There is nothing you can do about this. Just keep his water clean & hope he can live as long as possible with it.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

Sounds good. 👍 Thank you for your advice.
GSPFranku
Puffer Fry
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 8:28 pm
Location (country): Canada, Ontario

Re: Moving Lump GSP

Post by GSPFranku »

Update:

The lump continued to grow in size and developed fold-like lumps.

Yesterday a smooth, round medium-sized white worm erupted from his forehead. Frank was placed in a hospital tank.

The worm fully excited his body only for him to promptly eat it.

Some remnants of the worm have been recovered to be grown.
I hope to identify it if the specimen recovers.

Frank is lethargic but otherwise smooth and okay.
Post Reply