Dwarf Puffers - rapid gill movement

[Peapuff11]

Hi,

I have 2 dwarf puffers and 3 otos in a 180L tank - heavily planted.

I've recently noticed that both puffers seem to exhibit rapid gill
movement, this is more pronounced during feeding, but not isolated to
feeding time.

I've posted this on numerous forums but unfortunately, I've not had any
luck in diagnosing the issue.

The fish "appear" ok, they don't appear to exhibit any other symptoms. They
eat a mixed diet of frozen blood worms, brine shrimp and ramshorn snails
and appetite doesn't seem to be effected and they are always exploring
their environment - they are very active.

A video of the gill movement can be seen below. This has been ongoing for
about 2 months.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26207876@N02/8198156912

As an aside, In the video, her movement may look strange and in some forums
where I have posted this, its become the focus of the diagnosis. Some have
commented on the fin curling, but this seems to be normal behaviour when
they are checking out snails - adding a snail right next to the glass was
the only way I could get a good video where the gill movement can be seen
clearly!


I'm going to provide as much detail as I can here in the hope that this
sheds some light on the situation:

Water Paramaters
Temp:77-80F
Nitrites:0
Nitrates: 40ppm straight out of tap, so using a nitrate removal filter to
bring this down to 0 before adding to my tank(not RO, just a nitrate
remover)
Ammonia: 0.001(from seneye, verified as "0" with an API test kit)
Adding co2 (KH 12, bringing ph down to 7.2) - controlled via a PH controller. PH verified with seneye

What I add to the tank:
I perform weekly 25-30% water changes, water is prepared 1 night before and I add seachem prime
I add Neutro+ as a daily fertiliser and have recently started adding sachem excel (problem was exhibited before this though)

I'm going to switch off the co2 for a few days and see if this improves things, if not, is there anything else that may be causing this? E.g. A parasite.

Thank you in advance and I appreciate any advice you can provide.

D

[Flutter]

Her tail curling is completely normal, as is her movement. She's moving just like a puffer.

Her breathing is quite heavy though. Since it's just the one fish I am assuming the oxygen levels are fine. It could be a parasite on her gills and/or something has caused damage to her gills. The other thing I would wonder about is her heart but I would expect to see decreased body condition if it were a heart problem.

Good luck, I'm sure someone else will have better answers for you

[defool89]

Sounds like the next classic, growls over and over, "rapid gill movementl" then a guitar solo

[I.Puff.Too]

How's the surface agitation? Does the fish hangout by the filter any, or go towards the surface? It may be an oxygen problem, maybe she just doesn't process it as well as the other fish. If surface agitation isn't adequate try increasing it, and maybe bring the temperature down to around 74. I haven't watched the video yet, but I will tomorrow. Hopefully you'll have some kind of answer by then though.

[Peapuff11]

Hi All,

Thanks for the responses!

Both of my puffer fish are experiencing the same symptoms.

I've switched off my co2 last night and will see if this results in any improvement.

I've also lowered the water temp - is 74 acceptable long term?

There was a reasonable amount of surface agitation but thinking there was a lack of oxygen I added a Venturi adapter to my power head a few weeks ago. The tank has lots of air bubbles floating around.

They aren't spending much time near the top of the tank - they spend most of the time examining every leaf of every plant! They are quite active. In particular when I approach the tank they come swimming up to the glass to see what's going on(me=food!), sometimes a little too quickly that they bump into the glass

D

[RTR]

Aeration and CO2 supplement are often contradictory.

What CO2 level were you maintaining in the tank? Did you have visible pearling routinely during the lighted period?

[Peapuff11]

Hi,thanks for your reply ..

No visible pearling but a light green on drop checker and good co2 levels looking at PH and kh. This is why I decided to try and add seachem excel as well.

I was worried about adding more co2 due to the current issue with fish

[defool89]

How much excell did you use? Its toxic to fish if over dosed. I have the MSDS to excel in my email.

[Peapuff11]

I did 5 capfuls of excel(note problem occurred before excel added, several months before), I've had my co2 off for 24 hours and fish seem fine. So, it's definitely co2 related.

I've seen some clouding of water after adding excel yesterday so about to do a water change.

Ay recommendations - Are dwarf puffers particularly effected by co2?

D

[Flutter]

They aren't overly sensitive. We've done high tech tanks with CO2 and daily fertilization. It can be difficult to balance if you want a fish tank with plants or a planted tank with fish. We ended up having to cut back on CO2 and fertilizers. The plants weren't as nice but the fish were happier

[I.Puff.Too]

Glad you've seemed to have found the problem. Good Luck.

[RTR]

The post by defool89 above is misleading and mostly incorrect. Seachem's Flourish Excel (Note: only one "l") has an unusually high margin of safety and is an extremely useful and safe product.

[defool89]

The post by defool89 above is misleading and mostly incorrect. Seachem's Flourish Excel (Note: only one "l") has an unusually high margin of safety and is an extremely useful and safe product.

Im not going through this again. Its safe yes, but their is a limit on how much you can safely use till its toxi. If you would like the MSDS (material safetey data sheet) I have it if youre curious on its contents. The end.

[Peapuff11]

Is it known to cause cloudy water?

[Pufferpunk]

Cloudy water is generally caused by a bacterial bloom.