Hi all,
I'm brand new to this board, so sorry I haven't had time to introduce myself properly. I just have to ask this question!
I have a sick red-tailed puffer (Carinotetraodon irrubesco). He has a white patch on his side and a small white spot on his tail and one below his mouth. It's not hard and shiny like ich so I don't think it's ich. He's now on his second round of Maracyn Plus and is not responding. He has stopped eating and is lethargic and hides from me.
I thought he was going to die yesterday, so I ran to my awesome local fish store in desperation and they suggested Herbtana. I did a 20% water change and then put in the first dose of Herbtana. He was alive this morning! However I'm supposed to treat him for 10 days, and I just want to make absolutely sure that Herbtana is safe to use on freshwater dwarf puffers because it will become more concentrated in the water each day. I've searched the Internet but only found references to it being used on saltwater puffers. But the Herbtana that I bought is for freshwater.
Also, Herbtana says not to use it with other medications. I gave him the second does of Maracyn Plus on Wednesday morning. I've stopped Maracyn because it's not doing anything for him. So with the amount of Maracyn that is currently in the water, will it be okay to continue using the Herbtana?
BTW his water has been tested and it's just fine.
Thanks a million guys!
Jennifer
Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
JenJen19720
- Puffer Fry
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- Location (country): United States
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jus85411
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- Location: Philadelphia Area
Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
i just wanted to say welcome! hopefully everything gets better. i googled for ingredients on it but couldnt find anything yet, does the bottle say anything about them? if it is copper based you cannot use it on puffers so watch out for that. did you treat maracyn wednesday and stop cause of no progress so you got herbtana? if you have not treated with the herbtana yet, and plan to, put a carbon pad in your filter to get rid of the maracyn left in the water. i dont know how long you should wait to treat again, i would guess at least 12-24 hours.
if you can post a picture that would be great and that would help the proper people be able to help with what is wrong and what to treat with. because if you have not already gotten a proper ID on the parasite or whatever is affecting your fish, you should do so before treating
if you can post a picture that would be great and that would help the proper people be able to help with what is wrong and what to treat with. because if you have not already gotten a proper ID on the parasite or whatever is affecting your fish, you should do so before treating
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Corvus
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Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
I can't find a list of ingredients. 100% made from plants says nothing... strychnine is also 100% natural and made from plants... so is tea... sugar... So I cannot comment on the product (Personally, I don't intentionally add stuff to my tank not knowing what it might be). Maybe someone has a list of ingedients, which allows an assumption of when it might be useful...
Maracyn will only help with some bacterial infections.
For diagnosis I guess it would be good if you could answer the question in red on top of the page.
Maracyn will only help with some bacterial infections.
For diagnosis I guess it would be good if you could answer the question in red on top of the page.
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a fish a man, and he'll eat for weeks.
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JenJen19720
- Puffer Fry
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Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
Hi there,
You are so sweet. I also tried to find a list of ingredients and couldn't. I can definitely smell cinnamon or something in the liquid. It's not copper based that I know of. I know the guys at my local fish store have used it and like it.
I wish that I could send a picture but he's hiding now and I can't get a good shot. I can barely see him. He comes out now and then but I can't get a clear, unobstructed view.
Here's the whole story of how I've been treating him:
April 23 - Saturday - Easter weekend, noticed white patch on side. He was still eating and being normally active and coming to see me when I checked on him.
April 29 - Friday - Started dosing with Maracyn Plus, even though he still was acting normally. White patch didn't get any bigger, but I thought it started to look a little pink in the center.
May 3 - Tuesday - Gave last dose of Maracyn Plus. Went out of town on Wednesday and returned on Friday. All seemed well. Put the carbon filter back in.
May 7 - Saturday - 40% water change. Puff was acting normal for the next several days.
May 13 - Friday - Puff didn't come out to eat, even though it was live black worms, which he LOVES. Ate on Saturday, didn't eat on Sunday.
May 16 - Monday - Started second round of Maracyn Plus. Puff getting worse, more lethargic and reclusive, hasn't eaten in days.
May 18 - Wednesday - gave second dose of Maracyn Plus (you dose on days 1, 3, and 5, and that was day 3).
May 19 - Thursday - Puff resting on the bottom of the aquarium in the a.m. I know that's a really, really bad sign. During my lunch break I took a sample of his water to the LFS and had it tested just to make sure everything was still okay. They couldn't test for nitrates because they ran out of that test, but everything else looked fine. I decided to quit giving him Maracyn because it wasn't helping. I bought a bottle of Herbtana on their recommendation and gave him the first dose last night after I did a 20% water change.
May 20 - today - Puff is still alive! When I turned on the living room light I saw he was at the top of the aquarium, but he immediately went under his log when the light came on.
So that's where things stand today...
You are so sweet. I also tried to find a list of ingredients and couldn't. I can definitely smell cinnamon or something in the liquid. It's not copper based that I know of. I know the guys at my local fish store have used it and like it.
I wish that I could send a picture but he's hiding now and I can't get a good shot. I can barely see him. He comes out now and then but I can't get a clear, unobstructed view.
Here's the whole story of how I've been treating him:
April 23 - Saturday - Easter weekend, noticed white patch on side. He was still eating and being normally active and coming to see me when I checked on him.
April 29 - Friday - Started dosing with Maracyn Plus, even though he still was acting normally. White patch didn't get any bigger, but I thought it started to look a little pink in the center.
May 3 - Tuesday - Gave last dose of Maracyn Plus. Went out of town on Wednesday and returned on Friday. All seemed well. Put the carbon filter back in.
May 7 - Saturday - 40% water change. Puff was acting normal for the next several days.
May 13 - Friday - Puff didn't come out to eat, even though it was live black worms, which he LOVES. Ate on Saturday, didn't eat on Sunday.
May 16 - Monday - Started second round of Maracyn Plus. Puff getting worse, more lethargic and reclusive, hasn't eaten in days.
May 18 - Wednesday - gave second dose of Maracyn Plus (you dose on days 1, 3, and 5, and that was day 3).
May 19 - Thursday - Puff resting on the bottom of the aquarium in the a.m. I know that's a really, really bad sign. During my lunch break I took a sample of his water to the LFS and had it tested just to make sure everything was still okay. They couldn't test for nitrates because they ran out of that test, but everything else looked fine. I decided to quit giving him Maracyn because it wasn't helping. I bought a bottle of Herbtana on their recommendation and gave him the first dose last night after I did a 20% water change.
May 20 - today - Puff is still alive! When I turned on the living room light I saw he was at the top of the aquarium, but he immediately went under his log when the light came on.
So that's where things stand today...
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JenJen19720
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 1:09 pm
- My Puffers: Carinotetraodon irrubesco (Red-tailed Puffer)
- Location (country): United States
Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
(wow, sorry that was so long)
I forgot to add that his tankmates, a gold tetra and four neon tetras, are fine. They don't show any symptoms of illness or disease.
I forgot to add that his tankmates, a gold tetra and four neon tetras, are fine. They don't show any symptoms of illness or disease.
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sevenyearnight
Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
That cinnamon smell is probably allspice, the active ingredient in pimafix. I've never heard of that product, but if you found anecdotal information that it worked on saltwater puffers, *should* work fine on freshwater.
Please keep us informed a I'm curious to know if it works, and works safely.
Please keep us informed a I'm curious to know if it works, and works safely.
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JenJen19720
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 1:09 pm
- My Puffers: Carinotetraodon irrubesco (Red-tailed Puffer)
- Location (country): United States
Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
UPDATE
I don't want to jinx anything, but that Herbtana seems to be working wonders on my puff.
He was near death on Thursday, when I gave him the first dose.
Friday morning he was hovering near the top of the tank and when I got home from work at 5:30, he was hanging out under a leaf in the middle of the tank and his color was back to normal! And that white spot seems to be almost gone. He was breathing heavily though. Gave him a second dose.
This morning! He was hanging out at the top of the tank as per usual and he actually swam down to see me, and did a little back and forth swimming like he used to do instead of retreating under his log like he has been since he got sick. His eyes are totally clear--I've never seen them that clear. His color is wonderful. His breathing is still a little heavy, but much improved from last night. His body no longer looks as swollen. He was even going into his hunting posture a couple of times, so I'm going to try to give him some nice black worms this afternoon.
The instructions say to dose once a day for 10 days, so I'm sure I'll have more updates over the next week.
FYI on Herbtana: http://www.microbelift.com/products/new ... reshwater/
I do wish they would publish a list of ingredients, it would help their credibility and make people more comfortable with using their products, and they would probably increase sales. I am so glad the guys at my local fish store are knowledgeable and carry innovative products, because if I had to rely on PetSmart, my puff would not be alive right now. I am ridiculously attached to that tiny feesh!
I don't want to jinx anything, but that Herbtana seems to be working wonders on my puff.
He was near death on Thursday, when I gave him the first dose.
Friday morning he was hovering near the top of the tank and when I got home from work at 5:30, he was hanging out under a leaf in the middle of the tank and his color was back to normal! And that white spot seems to be almost gone. He was breathing heavily though. Gave him a second dose.
This morning! He was hanging out at the top of the tank as per usual and he actually swam down to see me, and did a little back and forth swimming like he used to do instead of retreating under his log like he has been since he got sick. His eyes are totally clear--I've never seen them that clear. His color is wonderful. His breathing is still a little heavy, but much improved from last night. His body no longer looks as swollen. He was even going into his hunting posture a couple of times, so I'm going to try to give him some nice black worms this afternoon.
The instructions say to dose once a day for 10 days, so I'm sure I'll have more updates over the next week.
FYI on Herbtana: http://www.microbelift.com/products/new ... reshwater/
I do wish they would publish a list of ingredients, it would help their credibility and make people more comfortable with using their products, and they would probably increase sales. I am so glad the guys at my local fish store are knowledgeable and carry innovative products, because if I had to rely on PetSmart, my puff would not be alive right now. I am ridiculously attached to that tiny feesh!
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
This is great news! Yes, ingredients would be helpful.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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JenJen19720
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Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
Unfortunately he started taking a turn for the worse Saturday afternoon. Floating motionless in a vertical position at the top of the tank, still breathing heavily. Then once in a while he would swim around and seem normal. But this morning he was on the bottom of the tank, belly up, but still faintly breathing. I went to find instructions on how to euthanize him with vodka so he wouldn't get picked on by the tetras, but when I came back he had moved under his log, and lying belly up there. I was shocked that he was able to swim enough to get there. So I left him in peace and when I was leaving the house, he was swimming again, although weakly.
What is going on? How does he have the strength to swim when he is so near death? I guess the Herbtana has extended his life and I'd had such high hopes that he would fully recover. I have been crying so much over my poor little tiny puff.
What is going on? How does he have the strength to swim when he is so near death? I guess the Herbtana has extended his life and I'd had such high hopes that he would fully recover. I have been crying so much over my poor little tiny puff.
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sevenyearnight
Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
I am not sure, I've had fish recover after pulling them off the intake pre filter several times. Sometimes things look worse than they are.
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sevenyearnight
Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
I say give him a chance to make it if his self-preservation is kicking in.
Keep his water clean and his stress low.
Keep his water clean and his stress low.
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Pufferpunk
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T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
Ich is a gill disease. The herbal remedy you used may have taken care of the spots on his body but not in the gills. Are you using the other methods recommended to combat this (salt, heat, large water changes)?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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JenJen19720
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Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
Hi Pufferpunk - I thought large water changes would stress him out... I did a 20% change on Thursday, and it's now only Monday. Do another?
I used salt when I started his first round of Maracyn a few weeks ago, two tablespoons for his 10 gallon tank. I read somewhere that salt doesn't evaporate so I assumed it was still pretty salty in there. How much more should I put in since I did the 20% water change? Also, I used non-iodized sea salt, is that okay?
I live in Texas and during the day when we have the A/C turned up, his water temp is normally 80-82 degrees. Should I heat it more?
Should I get PimaFix or MelaFix or something? I'm not even sure I can find them around here.
Hi Sevenyearnight - Thanks for the words of encouragement and sharing your experiences with me. I do hope he recovers, he is such a neat little guy.
I used salt when I started his first round of Maracyn a few weeks ago, two tablespoons for his 10 gallon tank. I read somewhere that salt doesn't evaporate so I assumed it was still pretty salty in there. How much more should I put in since I did the 20% water change? Also, I used non-iodized sea salt, is that okay?
I live in Texas and during the day when we have the A/C turned up, his water temp is normally 80-82 degrees. Should I heat it more?
Should I get PimaFix or MelaFix or something? I'm not even sure I can find them around here.
Hi Sevenyearnight - Thanks for the words of encouragement and sharing your experiences with me. I do hope he recovers, he is such a neat little guy.
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Pufferpunk
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T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
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C valentini
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C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
Melafix is recommended to heal the skin where the cysts have attacked the fish.
At minimum, you should be doing 50% WC weekly. With a free-swimming parasite on the loose, 80% WC every other day, while vacuuming the substrate for eggs & cysts, is recommended while treating.
library/hospital/fwich/
At minimum, you should be doing 50% WC weekly. With a free-swimming parasite on the loose, 80% WC every other day, while vacuuming the substrate for eggs & cysts, is recommended while treating.
library/hospital/fwich/
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
JenJen19720
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 1:09 pm
- My Puffers: Carinotetraodon irrubesco (Red-tailed Puffer)
- Location (country): United States
Re: Can I use Herbtana on a freshwater puffer?
Hi all,
I just wanted to give you an update. My beloved Puff died on May 24. It was so sad. I cried for days and couldn't bring myself to give an update until now.
Anyway, I brought home a new Carinotetraodon irrubesco last week. He was a trade in at my local fish store, and is really helping me get over my first puff. I have a question about his behavior that I'm going to post in the freshwater puffer forum.
Thanks again for all your responses...
I just wanted to give you an update. My beloved Puff died on May 24. It was so sad. I cried for days and couldn't bring myself to give an update until now.
Anyway, I brought home a new Carinotetraodon irrubesco last week. He was a trade in at my local fish store, and is really helping me get over my first puff. I have a question about his behavior that I'm going to post in the freshwater puffer forum.
Thanks again for all your responses...