Stuff in red first:
1) pH - 7.5 // Am - between 0 and 0.2 (its in my tap water at 0.1, and I do daily 50% changes) // Nitrite - 0 to <0.5 (tank is at week two of cycling, don't lecture me on the virtues of pre-cycling a tank, as its obviously too late for that) // Nitrate - 20 // FW
2) 15 g. with one SAP and three gold danios and one plant (the smaller amazon sword plant)
3) Puffer gets a couple mysis shrimp in the morning and again in evening, with the occasional snail, 50% PWC's daily, PRIME water conditioner, stress zyme
4) Past week: added plant, the problem precedes this action
5) 2 weeks, still cycling. I know already, so don't waste your typing time telling me about cycling with a SAP in the tank. So far he is active and friendly, and I'm managing levels just fine.
The ACTUAL problem:
The puffer has a lumpy belly. He does not seem to be on the skinny side (from being underfed, malnourished, not eating). I don't think I can get a picture, but he appears to have a just slightly uneven belly. I haven't seen him poop (not for lack of trying) so I don't know how it looks. He eats fine, and presumably poops a plenty. He is very active and friendly, and will eat food from between my fingers at every meal. The lumps do not look like tumors or cysts or anything that uniform. Instead, is it possible that I'm just seeing the digestive tract through the skin? Possibly IPs?
Please help, as I don't know how concerned to be. I hope someone else has noticed this and has a recommendation.
SAP has lumpy belly
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Srkoe
- Fahaka Puffer
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1 mystery puffer (turgidus?)"Manson" - Location (country): United States
Re: SAP has lumpy belly
How long did he eat before you saw lumps? It's probably just food. My puffers often look lumpy after eating. If he's not pooping you can try to feed him peas as a laxative 
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ATXpuffer
- Puffer Fry
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Well his belly noticeably protrudes a bit after eating, then it kind of looks like it's passing through the tubes, and then his tummy is back to sort of uneven lumps. I'm thinking it may just be his bowels. Would not feeding for a day and looking for a reduction in size of the lumps be ok? Id feel bad starvig him for a day because eating is his absolute favorite thing, but as long as a one day fast won't kill him I'll try it. That seems like it would put this to rest...
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Srkoe
- Fahaka Puffer
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1 Honeycomb Toby "Ashera"
2 Congo "P-Nut"&"Bevo"
1 mystery puffer (turgidus?)"Manson" - Location (country): United States
Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Did he have snails before this happened? My puffs bellies are lumpier after eating snails. It wouldn't hurt to fast him for a day...if you can be strong and resist the begging...lol!
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ATXpuffer
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
The begging and the post-shrimp happiness is hard to resist. The little guy hasn't had snails in a few days, but the lump look was there before I ever fed him any snails, so I don't think it's the snails. Do they act differently with IPs? Anything I can do to rule them out?
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Srkoe
- Fahaka Puffer
- Posts: 770
- Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:46 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: 1 Fahaka "Ares"
2 GSP "Wally"&"Marty"
6 Dwarfs "the peas"
2 Figure 8 "Fugu"&"Gizzard"
1 Honeycomb Toby "Ashera"
2 Congo "P-Nut"&"Bevo"
1 mystery puffer (turgidus?)"Manson" - Location (country): United States
Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Typically with ip's the belly will be concave. You probably don't have anything to worry about. Maybe a pro will chime in.
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ATXpuffer
- Puffer Fry
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Thanks so much Srkoe, I appreciate the feedback. I agree that unless a pro chimes in or the fish acts unusual, things are probably copacetic, and I'm concerned for no good reason.
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J-P
- Former Staff Member
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Their bellies are never "perfectly" round when filled Different food sizes will shape them differently.
Different food sizes will shape them differently.You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
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ATXpuffer
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
J-P you nailed it. It's not quite flat when the fish is empty either, but your picture looks exactly like mine when full of shrimp.
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Pufferpunk
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Unless the lumps appear to be under3 the skin (nematode worms), I'm with the rest--just food. It is a good idea though to skip a day's feeding/week though. As far as your tank... your puffer would fair much better alone in there, since 15g is the bare minimum for a singleton. It would also reduce the bioload without the danios & make the cycling process much easier on the puffer.
More info: library/puffers-in-focus/sap/
More info: library/puffers-in-focus/sap/
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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ATXpuffer
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Pufferpunk - I added the danios to increase the bioload and speed up the cycling, my logic being that my single puffer was not providing much waste. Since I'm doing daily WCs anyway, figured that I could jump start the process a bit. Additionally, the group will be moving into a 20 long or 30 in mid may.
As far as the lumps go, they are certainly in the puffers tummy, but they don't seem to be subdermal in nature. Thanks for all the feedback.
Also, why is having a skip day a good idea? Not skeptical, just curious.
As far as the lumps go, they are certainly in the puffers tummy, but they don't seem to be subdermal in nature. Thanks for all the feedback.
Also, why is having a skip day a good idea? Not skeptical, just curious.
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Pufferpunk
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
I don't think you understand the cycling process. All it's doing is adding more ammonia to stress the puffer out further, making it harder for the tank to cycle. All it needs is enough bacteria to support the bioload of the puffer--period. Please do something about removing the extra waste producers.
Read the 2nd part of my sig:
Read the 2nd part of my sig:
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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ATXpuffer
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Ok so after 2 skipped meals, the puffer's belly looks a little concave. This is something I haven't noticed before. Do other peoples SAPs get an inny when super hungry? He's still acting totally normal...
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Pufferpunk
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burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
How long is 2 skipped meals, 2 days?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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ATXpuffer
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Re: SAP has lumpy belly
Nope. Skipped dinner last night and breakfast today. 3 mysis shrimp for each is the norm, with the occasional snail.