Please help with stressed GSPs

[Tullstone]

Hello all,

Consider this my introduction to the forum. I have 3 small GSPs (about 2 inches each) in a ten gallon tank with several structures, a faux plant, and a java fern.

Like a noob, I did not hear the warnings about not cyclng a tank with these fish, and they have been in an uncycled (my only) tank for about 4 days.

Since intrduction to the tank, my PH had spiked to 7.8, which i later found to be normal for these fish. After setting the PH back to 7.0, I am slowly raising the PH back to 7.2 over a period of 5 hours. The drops seem to be hardly working.

My ammonia was also high but after a water change, it lowered.

I will begin to add aquarium salt to the tank tomorrow.

Despite lower ammonia, PH changes, introduction of new structures for hiding places.... 2 of the puffers have developed stress lines, and one's belly is beginning to darken. I already have an attachment to these fish and have been researching and working hard to improve their quality of life, but I feel i need some help. Do any of you have some constructive tips for their eliminating stress? What has worked for you? I feel that I am fighting a losing battle here.

Thank you all for your help.

[Tullstone]

I have also read on the forum that these fish require a 30 gallon tank. Is this necessary at such a small size anyway? I do plan to eventually move them to a larger tank. Is this the source of their stress? Sure, they nip at each other at times, especially feeding tim, but they seem content with each other. Except for that black line. Im confused.

[Pufferpunk]

Even as small juvenile puffers, they produce a lot of waste. I definitely wouldn't keep more than a single GSP in a 10g, preferably 15g for a singleton & then upgrading at ~2".

library/puffers-in-focus/an-introductio ... d-puffers/

library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/

[LilGreenPuffer]

Don't add any salt yet. Marine salt will hurt the bacteria you're trying to get to grow in the tank. Aquarium salt won't make any difference to them.

Don't try to alter the pH. As long as it's stable, they really don't care what it is.

The best way to eliminate stress right now is to keep ammonia and nitrite at 0 (lots of water changes and a tank upgrade!), get the tank cycled, and then turn the tank brackish. Stop changing the pH; swings are big stressers. Add more decorations and give them more space.

Welcome to the forum!

[Nick]

Try to find at least a 55 gallon tank on craigslist. I don't know if there is such a thing as enough water changes on a 10 gallon to keep three 2" GSPs alive. A 90 gallon tank would be better, it will take all 3 right to adulthood and is so much bigger than they need now that it would cycle much much more softly than even the 55, meaning less stress on you.

[Tullstone]

Thanks for the quick response, guys.

Well im at a crossroads now. i found a 55 gallon tank, with nothing else for 20 dollars. I also found a 55 gal. with hood and stand for 150 dollars. I read that 2 filters are ideal for this size of tank, but I have no idea what types of filtration or oxygenation machines are needed for a tank this size. No one in my family has ever had a tank this big. . Any suggestions on the type of filter?


If this is too expensive, I will have to return my puffers and give them a better chance at life.

[Pufferpunk]

You can easily make your own stand but need a well-fitting lid to keep him from jumping. I suggest this filter: https://www.petsolutions.com/Default.as ... D=15510620
Add in a bucket of salt & whatever else you might need & your shipping is free.

[purplecandle]

Even better deal...Aqua clear for $20, does up to 70 gallons..but if you want 2 that is still just $40

http://www.bigalsonline.com/StoreCatalo ... 12&offset=

You can easily make your own stand but need a well-fitting lid to keep him from jumping. I suggest this filter: https://www.petsolutions.com/Default.as ... D=15510620
Add in a bucket of salt & whatever else you might need & your shipping is free.

[purplecandle]

Thanks for the quick response, guys.

Well im at a crossroads now. i found a 55 gallon tank, with nothing else for 20 dollars. I also found a 55 gal. with hood and stand for 150 dollars. I read that 2 filters are ideal for this size of tank, but I have no idea what types of filtration or oxygenation machines are needed for a tank this size. No one in my family has ever had a tank this big. . Any suggestions on the type of filter?


If this is too expensive, I will have to return my puffers and give them a better chance at life.

Don't freak out You can do it!..

Just for now, in the ten gallon..change the water daily..yes that sucks..but you just have to in such a small tank..leave the ph and salt alone..just water changes, vacuuming and feeding and love ....but if you think they may have parasites now is a good time to treat them in this small tank.

get a bigger tank and set it up...get it cycled and then when you put those puffers in there new tank grab a chair, sit in front of the tank and just watch how they come to life and you will see that it all was worth it

If you do have to return your puffs...do not return them to walmart if that is were you got them..donate them to another pet store or post an add for them in the classified section of this forum

[Pufferpunk]

Even better deal...Aqua clear for $20, does up to 70 gallons..but if you want 2 that is still just $40

Great price but with the cost of 2 & shipping, it's still more than the PS ones (since she'll need salt & other things) with free shipping.

[Tullstone]

OK....

Because I was curious, I consulted a guy at the petstore where I bought the fish and who has kept them.

he told me it is even possible to keep the fish in the 10 gallon tank.
He told me that when the puffers pale in coloration, this is an indicator of stress.
He told me the stress my fish are experiencing is from a high level of ammonia, and no beneficial bacteria.

He also said that these puffer get about 3 to 4 inches long each, which according to the inches-per-gallon rule, is enough.

Are puffer the exception to this rule? Is what the pet store telling me inaccurate? I'm getting conflicting information.

[purplecandle]

UGG don't ya just hate the whole shipping thing...

I guess it will depend on what else she will want to get..Bigal's does have some deals on salt and such...

Hard to beat free shipping though..she will just have to do some comparisons between websites.....

[Brandon8521]

Please do not listen to advice from the fish store. Trust what these guys are telling you. Most fish stores dont understand what it takes to care for these fish and give the wrong info.

[LilGreenPuffer]

OK....

Because I was curious, I consulted a guy at the petstore where I bought the fish and who has kept them.

he told me it is even possible to keep the fish in the 10 gallon tank.
He told me that when the puffers pale in coloration, this is an indicator of stress.
He told me the stress my fish are experiencing is from a high level of ammonia, and no beneficial bacteria.

He also said that these puffer get about 3 to 4 inches long each, which according to the inches-per-gallon rule, is enough.

Are puffer the exception to this rule? Is what the pet store telling me inaccurate? I'm getting conflicting information.

-Nope, not possible.
-Nope, they get dark gray/black on the belly area when they're stressed.
-Yep, and from cramped quarters and no salt.
-No, 6" long, not counting the tail, and the inch per gallon rule is pewp. Never use the inch/gallon rule. It's useless, absolutely useless. For example, would you put a 6" fish in a 6g tank? (For that matter, even if GSPs did only get to be 3"-4", would you put three of them in a 10g? There's not enough space for them to move!)

[purplecandle]

OK....


He also said that these puffer get about 3 to 4 inches long each, which according to the inches-per-gallon rule, is enough.

Are puffer the exception to this rule? Is what the pet store telling me inaccurate? I'm getting conflicting information.

Ok, my reply is going to be sarcastic, but please..I am not being sarcastic towards you..only this logic..to put it into perspective...


Under this logic...

I can buy that horse I have always wanted and put it into my walk in closet...

My cats can live in my kitchen cabinets...

I can put my guinea pigs in the stove...

My four year old can live in the bathroom..

Ok, now we see the logic is faulty..if you take a step back and look..

So, why would the pet store person tell you this??

Sometimes they are just misinformed, sometimes they lack the expertise....but mostly..

Because they want to sell you a fish...and they want to make it seem as easy as possible for you to take care of that fish..

Because..if they sell you that fish..they hope you will come back and purchase more stuff for that fish...

Selling a fish equals cash now and cash later..