closer to having my F8 tank- some Q's

[mrgreen]

Ok. So I'd ordered a 30 long from a long-standing petstore that I've had good luck with in the past. They take really good care of their animals- mostly birds and iguanas and rodents. They've only recently quit selling fish, BUT they sell fish equipment. He said it would be in by today, but so far, no call. Yesterday, I went to my regular lfs and talked to the owner. I said I was looking into getting a 30 long for two F8s and that I was waiting for the tank to come in. He asked where I got it from and I told him. Well the compitition flared up and he quoted me various things all discounted. So I'm thinking.... I wanted to get it up and cycled so I can add my F8s relatively soon. He swore that it would be a month, citing the cycling-with-fish deal. I also asked him about the F8s they have which are with the GSPs and they all have some sort of flat white-gray spots on them. I said I didn't like that and he said "That's from where they've been biting each other." I said, "That's not what your employee told me." she told me the other day it was some sort of thing they were being treated for. To this, he said "I'll order a new set for you." Hmm. You know the new sets need quaranteened and such and usually come in skinny! I thought about ordering some online but the shipping is outrageous for next day! I'd also have to move my dwarf puffer tank and my feeder tank as this new tank needs the support and size of the desk. (I'm stingy about a stand!) I said I wanted to do sand for the puffers and he said "Or rocks. It doesn't matter". But I thought some puffers like to burry themselves. I have sand in my feeder tank and the worms hide in there and so do the snails. He also quoted me 2 tablespoons of salt (sea not aquarium) per gallon. Now I read that you really need a refractometer to measure correct salinity AND I know they have them in fresh, so I wouldn't want to just chuck them into whatever salinity 2 tblspoons/gal. is! I want to start with a correctly-cycled tank AND nice fat, happy F8s!

[LilGreenPuffer]

Most puffers don't bury. Gravel is fine for F8s.

Good job being patient and waiting to have the best possible home for your new puffs.

[mrgreen]

What about bringing them up from fresh to light brackish?

I did move my DP tank and feeder tank, though. They look much better where I put them. (Also did a w/c just because its been a week AND easier to move a mostly-waterless tank. ) I have a cool table I can put the 30 long on. Just remains to be seen where I'll move my flat-screen tv to. lol

If I cycle, do I start with ammonia? I know I can use something from my established tank, but aside from changing the filter and chucking the old one full of goodies into the new tank, what should I do? I have tetra safestart, but I'd add that right before adding the fish. Its just that my 5-gal hex DP tank is doing SO well now after a couple months. Readings always great. Is it really going to take two months to fully cycle a 30 long? I'm trying to get as much of the tank set-up as I can now so I don't have to mess with things. I might have to wait on decorations until after its cycled just because of $ but that's no big deal. I read about cycling with an ammonia source, but am not sure. Can that just be the bottled stuff you get at the grocery store?

Oh and I asked him about test kits but his answer didn't really mean much to me. I have three kits- Amm., Nitrates and Nitrites. Two of them say fresh or salt and one is just fresh. What should I use for light brackish? Should I cycle as fresh and then gradually move up to a low salinity after I get them? And what IS a "lilght brackish" salinity reading? My feeder tank is brackish but its just a crab and such- just light salt for health. (Marine salt.) I just put in 3 or 4 tablespoons- its a 5.5 gal.- and none when I do a w/c unless its a 90%+.

Oh- and I am wondering about what he said about the puffs they have right now. I actually took a pic a while back- when they still had this issue! One woman worked there said it was bacterial and they were treating for it, but didn't say WHAT. The owner told me "They've been biting each other". I don't always believe everything this guy says and am wary of their "cycle with cheap fish" motto, but they seem to be pretty okay with fish in general. If I asked for special fish, he'd just chuck them into the contaminated tank with the others, or they might come in skinny with IPs or.... Mind you, my DP is in GREAT shape that i got there, but then again, he's been living with me.

Pic of some of the GSPs that live with the F8's at LFS. You can see the spots I mean. They are more or less prominant on each fish in there. These were taken May 7, 2009 and all the puffs in there have it.

[LilGreenPuffer]

You can leave the old filter on the established tank until they get into the house, then switch it over, and you'll have an instant cycle. (This, of course, is assuming that the bioload on the established tank is equal to two young F8s. If not, then you would move it over now and do the fishless cycle, as you planned.) As for ammonia, yes, the bottled stuff at the grocery store is great. I tried it with old flake food, and it was nasty. Liquid ammonia is so much cleaner.

Go ahead and cycle it fresh. Your bacteria source (filter) is in fresh water, so you don't want to change the SG on it while you're trying to enlarge the population. After the cycle is completely over, then start raising the SG.

For the appropriate SG, check the PufferPedia.

Which test kit to use - FW would probably be best.

[mrgreen]

My new tank won't use the same kind of filter as the established one. But can I try to put the old one in the new one's container in addition to the other media? Or can I cut out the part that's got all the goodies in it? And if I just yank that out and put a fresh filter in the old one, the bacteria in the old tank will be okay? The established tank is a 5.5 gallon with one gsp and two ottos and some shrimp.

[LilGreenPuffer]

You have to change them sometime, of course. It'll be fine if you just put a clean one in. Most people who run two filters on a tank only change one at a time, but IME it's not necessary when you're dealing with one filter. An established tank has double the bacteria that it needs, and if you take the cartridge out, there'll still be tons in the substrate and on other surfaces.

And as for the mismatched brands, I just took a Whisper cartridge out of my established tank and put it into the filter (I don't know what brand!) on my new setup, and it doesn't really fit right, but it's doing the job. Once it seeds the new sponge filter in there, I'll be taking the power filter out anyway. So, yeah, just cram it in or cut part out, whichever works, and don't worry about it looking pretty.

Didn't know you had gotten another GSP. Hopefully Round 2 will have a happier ending... if you move the GSP to an appropriate-sized tank with tankmates that will survive when he gets bigger, make it brackish, and keep the otos in fresh water and *don't* put them in brackish water with him. ...Unless you meant Squirt, not a GSP???

[mrgreen]

Yeah. D'oh! I meant Squirt. I don't have another gsp. This new tank I'm planning is for two F8's.

Thanks for the info on moving the filter goodies.

Here's Squirt's tank as of yesterday. Just him and a few shrimp a couple ottos and various tiny snails.
And after that, him giving me his infamous look, "What!? Get away! I can feed myself!"

[mrgreen]

UPDATE:

I have to wait on getting my F8 tank. Bills.... Oh well. My other two tanks are doing really well. I just cleared out the sand in my impeller on my brackish feeder tank. I have a sponge on the intake which catches most of it, but still gets in there... I got some more live blood worms and tiny snails for it. The snails were breeding in there so here's to a whole new generation.