How often do you change his water?
If you and your folks can't come to an agreement/compromise, then you're gonna have to think seriously about whether you want to keep him long term.
Pami.
figure-eight puffer with ich
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
postreply
No way, I wouldn't give them up. I would treat the ick before I give them away. I just am not certain if its even ick. I clean the water whenever it needs to be changed, I would say approximately once a month or sometimes a little less.
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Pufferpunk
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ChesapeakeSwellfish
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The most dangerous waste products will be invisible. Monthly water changes are not enough IMO for long-term health. When I adopted my GSP, I considered it to be for 20+ years - my goal, only slightly kidding, is to outlive my puffer and my cat (also 20+ years), and children of course.
I can understand your reluctance to do 50% weekly water changes - the salt is expensive. How about trying 25 - 30% on a strict weekly schedule and monitor your water? I believe that would be better for the fish than a 50% change after a month or more. We are trying to keep conditions as constant as possible, not just changing water when conditions become critical. Remember, the fish have no choice - they depend on us for everything.
I can understand your reluctance to do 50% weekly water changes - the salt is expensive. How about trying 25 - 30% on a strict weekly schedule and monitor your water? I believe that would be better for the fish than a 50% change after a month or more. We are trying to keep conditions as constant as possible, not just changing water when conditions become critical. Remember, the fish have no choice - they depend on us for everything.
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ChesapeakeSwellfish
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Eva,
I went back and read your previous posts and see that you are living at home. If you are still in school, perhaps you could include water changes as part of a science fair project or biology project on the nitrogen cycle? You could, for example, compare the concentrations/types of nitrogen in a tank with frequent vs infrequent water changes - an easy and useful experiment.
I went back and read your previous posts and see that you are living at home. If you are still in school, perhaps you could include water changes as part of a science fair project or biology project on the nitrogen cycle? You could, for example, compare the concentrations/types of nitrogen in a tank with frequent vs infrequent water changes - an easy and useful experiment.
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YBeNormal
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As stated above, water changes remove things that cannot be seen with the naked eye including nitrates, one of the few pollutants that can be measured using home test kits.
There are many other pollutants that accumulate in the tank that cannot easily be measured or even detected without very complex and expensive equipment. RTR wrote an article on Old Tank Syndrome that is now posted in our library. The article is very informative and should help you understand why large partial water changes are important.
There are many other pollutants that accumulate in the tank that cannot easily be measured or even detected without very complex and expensive equipment. RTR wrote an article on Old Tank Syndrome that is now posted in our library. The article is very informative and should help you understand why large partial water changes are important.
Don't forget frequent...large monthly as we've discussed (50%) will remove half the waste of weekly 25% changes.
And some of this depends on how you clean, your filtration and how much and often you feed (one of the biggest problems with any fish, but especially messy eaters like puffers with such big stomachs, is overfeeding - adult figure 8s don't need daily feedings let alone the twice a day feedings I've seen some folks recommend - feed them every other day or smaller portions daily AND always remove all uneaten food promptly).
Eric
And some of this depends on how you clean, your filtration and how much and often you feed (one of the biggest problems with any fish, but especially messy eaters like puffers with such big stomachs, is overfeeding - adult figure 8s don't need daily feedings let alone the twice a day feedings I've seen some folks recommend - feed them every other day or smaller portions daily AND always remove all uneaten food promptly).
Eric
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YBeNormal
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Actually, four 25% PWCs will remove less waste than two 50% water changes. Refer to the Water Change Math article in our library for an in-depth explanation. Regardless, large and frequent water changes are recommended over small/frequent or large/infrequent PWCs.Jayhawk wrote:Don't forget frequent...large monthly as we've discussed (50%) will remove half the waste of weekly 25% changes.
postreply
No I am not in school, I am in College ChesapeakeSwellfish 
Anyway, I will take your advise as much as I can, I will every two weeks change 20% of the water and monthly change 50% of the water. This is the best I can do. I have two jobs and go to college. I also have my 6 small tanks, 90 gallon aquarium and 5 gallon aquarium. Ive been a little busy latelly, not trying to complain or anything just saying. I wouldn't sell my fish for the world though. 
I am just curious wouldn't a weekly water change, even two weeks of cleaning the water shock the fish? I no for a fact it stresses mine out, but I have a lot of decorations I have to remove when cleaning out the aquarium.
Anyway, I will take your advise as much as I can, I will every two weeks change 20% of the water and monthly change 50% of the water. This is the best I can do. I have two jobs and go to college. I also have my 6 small tanks, 90 gallon aquarium and 5 gallon aquarium. Ive been a little busy latelly, not trying to complain or anything just saying. I wouldn't sell my fish for the world though. I am just curious wouldn't a weekly water change, even two weeks of cleaning the water shock the fish? I no for a fact it stresses mine out, but I have a lot of decorations I have to remove when cleaning out the aquarium.-
Pufferpunk
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T lineatus
T miurus
A modestus
T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
C lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Greenville, SC
- Contact:
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ChesapeakeSwellfish
- Mentor
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- Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:54 pm
- Location: southern Maryland
You are busy - your work ethic is admirable. I also worked my way through college and grad school. It can be done and I know it is hard. Perhaps the fish and their care can be therapy when things seem to be overwheming?
A water change of the same temp & salinity will not shock the fish. I think frequent changes actually get them used to the intrusion (I drain water in the process of vacuuming the gravel) & they come to accept it and investigate what you are doing. They don't seem to notice when the tank is being slowly filled. I keep my movements slow around the tank, as you do any tank, to keep from spooking them. You may not have to remove all your decorations every time you add water - the nitrifying bacteria on their surfaces are beneficial.
A water change of the same temp & salinity will not shock the fish. I think frequent changes actually get them used to the intrusion (I drain water in the process of vacuuming the gravel) & they come to accept it and investigate what you are doing. They don't seem to notice when the tank is being slowly filled. I keep my movements slow around the tank, as you do any tank, to keep from spooking them. You may not have to remove all your decorations every time you add water - the nitrifying bacteria on their surfaces are beneficial.
I agree with that, but I thought Eva was doing 50% once per month...and sometimes less frequently than that. 4 water changes at 25% each would be better than 1 50% (although my quick calculation was off, 1 50% change is 50% water replacement and 4 at 25% would be 69% water replacement).Actually, four 25% PWCs will remove less waste than two 50% water changes
I think RTR's article is great, and the math can't be beat, but I also don't think its meant to take into account feeding levels, how quickly (if ever) uneaten food is removed from the tank, stocking levels, plants, filtration, whether or not you gravel vac, what comes into your city water supply seasonaly, etc...and I consider those factors that also influence the TDS level and water quality in a tank.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against 50% weekly water changes and have done them for certain tanks, but depending upon the situation I'm just not convinced we always need to do 50% each week. I actually found the Skeptical Fishkeeper article on this topic interesting a few months ago in TFH (although I can't imagine changes less than 25% per week).
Eric