Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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FishFan
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Here's pics of the little guy, we'll post more about his trip in a little while.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by FishFan on Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A = Anne, R =Robert
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Nick
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
I'd defiantly included a flubendiazole based product added to the water due to his vomiting issues, protozoans found in the throats of fish are sometimes the cause of spitting rather than swallowing.
No matter how magnificent your successes or devastating your failures, the worlds' approximately 5 billion impoverished people could not possibly care less.
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Happy_Puffer
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
He has the best smile!! And so skinny I hope that you can help him! I'm sure he is in good hands now. Good luck with him and I will keep my fingers crossed!
*Katie*
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Well, he looks good from the front... I've got my fingers & toes crossed & am saying a prayer.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
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FishFan
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
We walked into the store and when we rounded the corner he was relaxing on the bottom of his tank. He jumped up and started getting excited when we were still at least 20 feet from his tank. This fishie knows what people are for!!!
The store owner was inflexible on price ($80 originally but reduced to $50), but was willing to give us a 3 day guarantee (their standard policy is no guarantee on sw), which we felt was enough to get us past the transport shock. We've had sick fish die within a day after being moved to a QT tank, apparently from the added stress.
In response to our concerns about transport shock and stress from the water chemistry change, the store owner set us up with a 5 gallon bucket of water from his tank to use in transport. Instead of being stuck in a quart of water for an hour and a half while we drove home, this little guy got to make his move in a 5 gallon bucket. What was also very nice about this was the effect it had on acclimation.
We put him in a 29 gallon qt tank with his 5 gallons of water and slowly added more sg and temp matched water. When we took the lid off the bucket once we got home, he puffed (we've had more than 1 puffer puff in acclimation buckets; they seem to really hate 'em), but deflated quickly once he was put in the tank. He ate a clam "foot" and "kissed" fingers through the glass before he was finished acclimating. We've given him 3 fleshy clam "feet" over several hours since he was moved to the qt tank; the first he kept 75% down, the second, nearly 100% down, and he has investigated the third, but has not eaten. He chews over and over and over again, and seems to have a problem swallowing, as he tried it repeatedly without 100% success. We've added Prazipro to the water, but that is all so far.
The store owner was inflexible on price ($80 originally but reduced to $50), but was willing to give us a 3 day guarantee (their standard policy is no guarantee on sw), which we felt was enough to get us past the transport shock. We've had sick fish die within a day after being moved to a QT tank, apparently from the added stress.
In response to our concerns about transport shock and stress from the water chemistry change, the store owner set us up with a 5 gallon bucket of water from his tank to use in transport. Instead of being stuck in a quart of water for an hour and a half while we drove home, this little guy got to make his move in a 5 gallon bucket. What was also very nice about this was the effect it had on acclimation.
We put him in a 29 gallon qt tank with his 5 gallons of water and slowly added more sg and temp matched water. When we took the lid off the bucket once we got home, he puffed (we've had more than 1 puffer puff in acclimation buckets; they seem to really hate 'em), but deflated quickly once he was put in the tank. He ate a clam "foot" and "kissed" fingers through the glass before he was finished acclimating. We've given him 3 fleshy clam "feet" over several hours since he was moved to the qt tank; the first he kept 75% down, the second, nearly 100% down, and he has investigated the third, but has not eaten. He chews over and over and over again, and seems to have a problem swallowing, as he tried it repeatedly without 100% success. We've added Prazipro to the water, but that is all so far.
We aren't familiar with this medication; could you tell us more about it? We have copper (Cupramine & Coppersafe), formalin, metronidazole, and quinine sulfate on hand; would any of these be helpful for this condition?Nick wrote:I'd defiantly included a flubendiazole based product added to the water due to his vomiting issues, protozoans found in the throats of fish are sometimes the cause of spitting rather than swallowing.
A = Anne, R =Robert
There has to be a point.
There has to be a point.
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FishFan
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Nick,
Is flubendazole a UK medication? We're having some trouble finding a source.
R&A
Is flubendazole a UK medication? We're having some trouble finding a source.
R&A
A = Anne, R =Robert
There has to be a point.
There has to be a point.
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Nick
- Former Staff Member
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GSPs - Shakespeare and Jillybean
F8 - Velvet
My fiance:
DP - Emma Goldman
Narrow Lined Puffer - Ulrike - Location (country): Northeastern USA
- Location: Middletown, CT
- Contact:
Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Metrodiazole might work as well, but flubendazole is better. It's a wormer, but it works on a much more broad class of organisms, including protozoans.
No matter how magnificent your successes or devastating your failures, the worlds' approximately 5 billion impoverished people could not possibly care less.
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StormySkiez
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
After searching for 30 mins I found flubendazole for sale in China through an export company: http://www.exporters.sg/showroom_item.asp?id=165555
Not a feasible option.
I don't know if it can be shipped to the US. Surely the dewormers we have available in the US would work. It's a great thing you took the sweet little puffer in your home to care for.
Not a feasible option.
I don't know if it can be shipped to the US. Surely the dewormers we have available in the US would work. It's a great thing you took the sweet little puffer in your home to care for.
55g-2 green spotted puffers 1 year old Nov 08!
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Happy_Puffer
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
How is he doing? What kind of puffer is that I don't think I have ever seen one like that? Then again I don't know anything about salt water or salt water fish!
*Katie*
The new owner of a salt water tank
The new owner of a salt water tank
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StormySkiez
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Spiny Box Puffer.
55g-2 green spotted puffers 1 year old Nov 08!
20g-5 leopard danio,4 whiteskirt tetras, amanos, nerita snails, 2 neon tetras
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Happy_Puffer
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Thank you. I know I'm a newbie hee hee. Everyone that read that was like wow, everyone knows that 
.
.*Katie*
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crayfish
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
That is a particular looking Spiny Box. He really is a nice looking fish. I hope that you guys find the resources to make him fat and happy because it sure looks as if you guys are ready to put in the effort. Good luck!
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Myaj
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
That isn't a spiny box puffer is it? Its a burrfish, looks to be the same species I have. Box fish are quite a bit different.
See this thread (photos on page two):
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... t=burrfish
Notoriously bad for starving away from internal parasites. If he's eating, that's a great step. You'll need to deworm though. I personally use a mix of metronadazole and Levamasole (a pig dewormer, if there are any farm supply stores near you they should have it). Mix an equal amount of each powder (I do one scoop of each, using the tiny scoop that comes with the metronadazole) in a little water, soak the food in it and feed the fish. It tastes bad, so you might have to fast them a day or two to get them to eat it.
It worked great for Paris though. As OrcL said, this species never gets "fat" but they will lose that concave belly and sort of get "love handles".
Some other foods to try, thawed out, raw shrimp. Nightcrawlers. Snails of any kind, Paris can easily crush MTS snails and absolutely loves ramshorns. I found the raw shrimp to be the easiest to soak in the meds though.
See this thread (photos on page two):
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/vie ... t=burrfish
Notoriously bad for starving away from internal parasites. If he's eating, that's a great step. You'll need to deworm though. I personally use a mix of metronadazole and Levamasole (a pig dewormer, if there are any farm supply stores near you they should have it). Mix an equal amount of each powder (I do one scoop of each, using the tiny scoop that comes with the metronadazole) in a little water, soak the food in it and feed the fish. It tastes bad, so you might have to fast them a day or two to get them to eat it.
It worked great for Paris though. As OrcL said, this species never gets "fat" but they will lose that concave belly and sort of get "love handles".
Some other foods to try, thawed out, raw shrimp. Nightcrawlers. Snails of any kind, Paris can easily crush MTS snails and absolutely loves ramshorns. I found the raw shrimp to be the easiest to soak in the meds though.
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FishFan
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Do you think fenbendazole would do any good? This site vaguely mentions fenbendazole getting similar results as flubendazole: http://www.nanfa.org/archive/nanfa/nanfamay02/0248.html However, the store mentioned no longer carries flubendazole, only fenbendazole.Nick wrote:Metrodiazole might work as well, but flubendazole is better. It's a wormer, but it works on a much more broad class of organisms, including protozoans.
A = Anne, R =Robert
There has to be a point.
There has to be a point.
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Myaj
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Re: Expert Advice Needed re: Very Emaciated Puffer
Oh also, when I was considering Paris in the store they were feeding her rosy reds (live feeders). I only bought her because she was eating. However, she was also regurgitating the rosy reds.
Once she was home and on more proper foods, she never did it again. I blame it on improper food. And as I said, once dewormed, she's been doing great. Growing, healthy, just an awesome fish, she'll be going into my 75 this weekend hopefully. You won't be sorry you bought that little guy!
Once she was home and on more proper foods, she never did it again. I blame it on improper food. And as I said, once dewormed, she's been doing great. Growing, healthy, just an awesome fish, she'll be going into my 75 this weekend hopefully. You won't be sorry you bought that little guy!