Planting my F8 tank and taking it brackish.

[Pufferoni]

I have never had a planted tank but I have decided there's no time like the present. In my usual fashion I am jumping in with both feet and my hands tied behind my back

I recently picked up some F8s that were kept in fresh water. I got some tank mates and I am going to add new lights and plant on Saturday. After the plants settle I am going to start a slow march to brackish.

Tank - 36"x12"x20"

Lights - 2 Coralife compact fluorescent 10000K 84watts total

Filter - Penguin 350 Double Biowheel

Bio Load - 2 3" Figure 8 puffers 2 3" Sailfin Mollies.

Substrate - Pool filter sand

Plants
Hygrophila polysperma (6 stems)
Microsorium Pteropus (1 section with 7 or 8 leaves)
Ceratophyllum Demersum(Hornwort - 7 or 8 stems)
Crypt. lutea (3 plants)
Anubias barteri var. barteri (1 plant 3 or 4 leaves)
Sagittaria (3 plants)
Red tiger loturs (Nymphaea zenkeri - 1 plant)
MICROSORUM PTEROPUS 'WINDELųV' (1 section - 3 or 4" by 3 or 4")
Crypt. lutea (2 more plants)
Vallisneria americana 3 stems
Java Moss

I am also gonna throw in a little watersprite to see how it does.

Gardener - clueless.

Do I need to add to the substrate.

Do I have enough light?

Do I need C02? Will excel work?

What about minerals and ferts?

Will I need to swap out the biowheel filter - too much surface agitation?

What about tank cover? With my lights I could go open, glass lids or even eggcrate.

I have cast about on a few other forums but find myself always returning here for the best advice. Thank you in advance for any help.

[gsolman6]

Sounds like you have a 35-40 gallon tank so that would work out to a little about 2w/gallon. I think that would be considered in the low to mid range which would confine your choices a bit. Supposedly the darker the greens of the plant the less light they need but do your research someplace like here:

http://www.plantgeek.net/

From what I've heard laterite and other substrates last about a year before all of the iron is leached out of them so you would have to go to another fert. anyway.

I think the CO2 is a separate issue from Excel and other ferts. Since you are more low end anyway this may be optional. Still to give yourself the best chance you could try a low cost DIY or premade kit.

As far a surface agitation it seems as if there is a situation where the height of the water exiting the filter is too far off of the surface of the water there will be more of this. When I fill my tank up higher I get less of this and a quieter system.

[Myaj]

Did you read the sticky about plants that do good in brackish? I think you have quite a few that could probably make it.

How deep is your substrate? The roots will need to be able to grab, but as far as an enriched substrate.. well, you could add some Flourite or EcoComplete, its probably up to you. I have a sand planted tank with no extra plant type substrate and it does just fine.

2w per gallon is good for most of those plants (there's a few, like the Sag, that might not make it), you won't need to add CO2 at that light level (though you could if you wanted, I'd personally go with Flourish Excel, its just easiest and works). For the biowheels, ah, just take the dang biowheel off and let it run like a regular old power filter. They pop right out for cleaning don't they?

Liquid ferts are up to you as well.. I generally forget to add mine and the tanks look fine, but when I do add them, I do see a big difference, especially in my anubias. Is it worth the extra expense.. maybe.. sometimes I say yes, sometimes I say no. Usually I say no when I'm complaining about having to prune yet again.

If you want to keep it simple, stick to the crypts, anubias, etc, and raise that salinity as slow as you possibly can.

[reiverix]

I've found vallisenria americana and java fern to grow the best for me. Other plants just seem to lose their sparkle although I might be a bit picky.

You might also want to look into Ruppia martima.

[crazy loaches]

You probably already know this but here are a few things. The valls are sensative to Excel, although they do well in brackish water. I have pretty much killed all mine of with Excel. If you go the injected co2 route the bio-wheels will gas of some co2, not sure to what extent though, but either you will have to use alot more co2 or you may just not be able to go above a certain ppm, or else take of the bio wheels like Myaj suggested, and keep the water level as high as possible like gsolman6 suggested. You may however need added surface agitation at night, like a powerhead or airstone on a night timer. Lighting looks pretty good, do you have reflectors over those lights?

[Phaedrus]

I'd probably replace the substrate with something like flourite. For that amount of lighting, excel would be a lot easier than co2 injection, but the vals would probably have to go. I'd probably also dose with regular flourish.

Realize that you'll be fighting an uphill battle.

[Pufferoni]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yes I knew it wouldn't be easy but I figured "what the hey"

The only changes I made to the set up in my original post are;

Lights - 3 10000k and one actinic(sp) they came with reflectors.

Substrate - I added 1/2" of flourite under the sand.

Plants - No Java Moss

I planted Saturday Jan 13. I planted everything I got in there and will fine tune the aquascape after everything settles. I have not started to add salt yet.

I added 20ml of excel on the 13th and 5ml again on the 18.

I have not added any ferts yet as I start with flourish tomorrow(thanks).

Lights are on approximately 8hrs.

Plants are all showing signs of growth except the crypts which of course have not settled as yet.

No signs of algae yet.

Fish love it.



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[Pufferoni]

Update:

Planted in January

Hygrophila polysperma
Microsorium Pteropus
Ceratophyllum Demersum(Hornwort)
MICROSORUM PTEROPUS 'WINDELųV'

Added 12-03-07
Java Moss
Amason Sword
Limnophila sessifloria
HYGROPHILA CORYMBOSA
CERATOPTERIS THALICTROIDES

Added Red Sea DIY Co2 unit 19-03-07

Specific gravity is at final target level of 0.004 as of 25-03-07. Of course I only have a crappy hydrometer so it could be full marine for all I know.LOL

Plants are doing surprisingly well so far. I have had alittle green powder algae on glass but nothing else. Ploysperma is colouring up redish since the addition of the Co2 and the sessifloria is growing well.

Here's how it looked 19-03-07
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[kass]

Looking good man!

[coldmachineUK]

Am really interested in seeing how this pans out!
I tried keeping (real) plants in a brackish F8 setup and despite selecting species from the plant geek website listed as brackish tolerant (i.e. via acclimatisation) mine didn't make it. The vallis lasted longest out of them.

I didn't use ferts or co2 though; I'd be really keen to see how that assists.

One thing: I wonder how well the marine salt will buffer your pH as you gradually increase salinity, vs. the decrease incurred from co2 injection?

In your DIY setup, are you using pressurised injection (therefore with a solenoid to turn off injection at night) or is it just a homemade brew with continual injection etc?

I will be stealing your ideas/plans if it works well!

[Pufferoni]

My SG was at 0.004 when I added the Co2 and I have not noticed any drop in Ph. I have to admit though that I am not one for lots of testing.

I use Red Sea brand DIY Co2 in all my tanks. They work exceptionally well.
They come with a power reactor, like a small powerhead. They continuously pumps water through and add in the Co2 when the build up in the container gets to a certain levl. It creates tiny microbubbles which really help with absorbtion compared to the ladder type. The feature I like the best is that you can plug them into your light timer circuit and stop the addition of Co2 during lights out.

Not as acurate as using Ph sensors and the like but for $40CDN you can't go wrong.

I have 3 10000k power compact bulbs and 1 actinic bulb and I recently learned that the actinic bulb do not add much light. I am going to replace it with a 10,000k bulb and truely bring myself up over 2 watts/gallon.

I am beginning to see powdery green algae on the glass if anyine has any suggestion I'm all ears.

I think the Co2 and ferts are pretty much manditory in brackish tanks as the plants we have available are stuggling already.

[my name is mike]

what are you using for ferts --- ???

i just planted my tank and am dosing with excel for the carbon (no co2 system for me)

[Pufferoni]

Just flourish.

[my name is mike]

cool ,,, are you pretty much following the directions on the back ?

[Pufferoni]

I am dosing 5ml twice a week, pretty much what the bottle says.