Figure 8 puffers

Tain't fresh, and tain't marine! Talk about brackish setups.
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Minipuff
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Figure 8 puffers

Post by Minipuff » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:44 am

I just can't get F8s out of my head. I would really like to have one or a few. It's not going to happen in a long time, but I have some questions:

- If you want to keep more than one, which is better: 2-3, or a larger group of say 4-5? (in terms of spreading the aggression)
- Is the risk of aggression so high that it's not really worth it to get more than one?
- Any "safe bet" tank mates out there? I'd love to keep bumblebee gobies, for example.
- Pufferpedia says SG 1.005-1.008 for F8. I just read in a thread here that RTR prefers 1.003-1.005 for F8. What do you recommend?
- Are they even more fun than DPs?? ;)
- How do you keep algae at bay in brackish tanks (I suspect lush plant growth can't be expected...)?
- What is the best source of info/photos of their natural habitats?

Btw, I discovered some weeks ago the latin name has been updated to Dichotomyctere ocellatus.
And - I found a scientific paper about breeding of F8s and some other puffers: http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 014-0842-7 :)

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Iliveinazoo
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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Iliveinazoo » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:17 pm

Minipuff wrote:I just can't get F8s out of my head. I would really like to have one or a few. It's not going to happen in a long time, but I have some questions:

- If you want to keep more than one, which is better: 2-3, or a larger group of say 4-5? (in terms of spreading the aggression)
- Is the risk of aggression so high that it's not really worth it to get more than one?
- Any "safe bet" tank mates out there? I'd love to keep bumblebee gobies, for example.
- Pufferpedia says SG 1.005-1.008 for F8. I just read in a thread here that RTR prefers 1.003-1.005 for F8. What do you recommend?
- Are they even more fun than DPs?? ;)
- How do you keep algae at bay in brackish tanks (I suspect lush plant growth can't be expected...)?
- What is the best source of info/photos of their natural habitats?

Btw, I discovered some weeks ago the latin name has been updated to Dichotomyctere ocellatus.
And - I found a scientific paper about breeding of F8s and some other puffers: http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 014-0842-7 :)
- I kept 2 together just fine, they don't seem to be too territorial and they aren't schooling species so i suppose that is why you don't get the aggression at lower numbers that you would with scats.
- mine worked well with bumblebee gobies but it got bullied by the halfbeak.
- i keep mine at Sg1.003@25degC and he's over 8 years old.
- never kept DP's.
- water turnover of over 10 times the water volume per hour. While CO2 is not recommended as it lowers pH you can still get some good growth from a lot of plant species at SG1.002-SG1.003.
- there was a thread on here a few years ago with photos of their habitat but i can't find it but if you do find any good photos please post a link.

I did have 2 Figure 8's but the other one died at around 6 years old and i put this down to problems with his teeth, he always sat back and waited for the other to open up shells so his teeth always got out of control and needed to be trimmed (my vet also broke his teeth by using clippers that were far too big) so please bear this in mind when thinking about including more than 1.

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By_a_coo
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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by By_a_coo » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:05 pm

Fernando

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Minipuff
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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Minipuff » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:53 am

Thank you both for your inputs - it's highly appreciated!

I loved seeing those photos from a habitat - thanks!

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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Pufftastic » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:29 pm

No problems here keeping two together either. In fact, they squabbled less than my DPs.

Bumblebee gobies can be great tankmates. I had balloon mollies with mine, which worked fine for a long time ... until it didn't. They were eventually eaten. :(

In terms of sociability with their humans, I found DPs and F8s to be about the same. Both were fairly interactive, but my F8 got even friendlier when I rehomed one of them and just kept a singleton.
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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by By_a_coo » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:17 pm

I'm gonna give my opinion/experience:

- I had 2 F8puffers for almost 8 years. One of them used to be very dominant and the other very passive. The dominant one died this year (probably some internal infection - I tried some antibiotics with no success). Now I have a singleton F8 much more unique... acting like a real F8. So IME, I really DO recommend a SINGLETON F8;

- I tried mollies with no agression (female ones), lately I've been thinking of orange chromides and indian glassfish...

- If your tap water is soft, I would recommend 1.005. If your tap water is hard, I would recommend 1.003. Neither RTR could explained to us the difference between 1.003-1.005... I choose what works better to my F8.

- Never had any DPs. But I can tell you that F8s are funny and adorable fishes... you're gonna fall in love for them just like any other puffer.

- Algae: I don't have much light ever since I realised F8s prefer darker enviroment, my nitrate is almost zero because of my WC's volume/frequency.

- Well, I already posted the link where anyone can see F8 in their natural habitat. My F8 now lives in a heavily fake planted brackish tank with a sump and dimmed light - that's what my F8s taught me these years.

HTH.
Fernando

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Iliveinazoo
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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Iliveinazoo » Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:43 am

I can't say that I have noticed any difference in my singleton puffer after he lost his 'mate', he is as personable now as he ever was before.

I've got to say that I also haven't noticed their preference for less light but I have noticed that they will use the upper levels of the tank more with a floating plant as cover, it may be that if your tank lighting is really low then it makes them 'feel' as if they have cover.

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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Minipuff » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:15 pm

Thanks for sharing your experiences, everybody! :) At this point I'll just have to let this sink in a bit. I think I have both the space and the money to set up a not too big F8-tank, but it boils down to a lack of "personal capacity" at the moment.

Well, if I decide to start a new tank, it seems to me that a singleton F8 with a group of bumblebee gobies is the way to go. I've read that the gobies can be pretty territorial, but still should be at least 8-10 individuals? Then what is the appropriate tanks size to provide both puffer and gobies with enough space and places to hide in?

I was also wondering what kind of floating plants would do well in low end brackish water?

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By_a_coo
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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by By_a_coo » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:40 pm

I guess 30g is a good size to keep them. Provide a lot o caves for BBGs and everything will be fine.

Wisteria is a good floating plant imo.
______________________________________________________________________________

Edit: the floating plant I meant is water sprite, not wisteria. I beg your pardon!
Fernando

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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Iliveinazoo » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:23 am

Minipuff wrote:Thanks for sharing your experiences, everybody! :) At this point I'll just have to let this sink in a bit. I think I have both the space and the money to set up a not too big F8-tank, but it boils down to a lack of "personal capacity" at the moment.

Well, if I decide to start a new tank, it seems to me that a singleton F8 with a group of bumblebee gobies is the way to go. I've read that the gobies can be pretty territorial, but still should be at least 8-10 individuals? Then what is the appropriate tanks size to provide both puffer and gobies with enough space and places to hide in?

I was also wondering what kind of floating plants would do well in low end brackish water?
I couldn't post anything yesterday for some reason but:

I have Cerateptoris Thalictroides floating in my tank and it's so rampant I have to pull out loads every water change.

If my memory serves me correct I think that Neale monks recommends 1 bumblebee Goby per 20cm diameter of the tank footprint. I probably concur with this as I used to keep mine in a tank with a footprint of around 50cmx30cm and they quickly whittled themselves down to 2, but the 2 lived for a good couple of years after. If you have higher perching places then you may be able to have slightly more.

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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Pufferpunk » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:18 am

You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Minipuff » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:02 pm

Thanks. I'm interested in the article by RTR on the bottom of the page, but the link didn't work?
It's gonna be a singleton with gobies. Eeeh... Eventually :)

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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Minipuff » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:54 am

Iliveinazoo wrote: I have Cerateptoris Thalictroides floating in my tank and it's so rampant I have to pull out loads every water change.

If my memory serves me correct I think that Neale monks recommends 1 bumblebee Goby per 20cm diameter of the tank footprint. I probably concur with this as I used to keep mine in a tank with a footprint of around 50cmx30cm and they quickly whittled themselves down to 2, but the 2 lived for a good couple of years after. If you have higher perching places then you may be able to have slightly more.
Oh, I didn't see this one before now. If I'm not wrong, C. thalictroides is something different than wisteria (mentioned by By_a_coo), right? Wisteria is H. difformis, and C. thalictroides is water sprite? So, if both these plants can tolerate brackish water, then that's very good news :)

I'll keep the goby-space in mind, it almost seems like keeping multiple gobies is a higher risk than keeping multiple puffers?? :O

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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Iliveinazoo » Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:32 am

Minipuff wrote:
Iliveinazoo wrote: I have Cerateptoris Thalictroides floating in my tank and it's so rampant I have to pull out loads every water change.

If my memory serves me correct I think that Neale monks recommends 1 bumblebee Goby per 20cm diameter of the tank footprint. I probably concur with this as I used to keep mine in a tank with a footprint of around 50cmx30cm and they quickly whittled themselves down to 2, but the 2 lived for a good couple of years after. If you have higher perching places then you may be able to have slightly more.
Oh, I didn't see this one before now. If I'm not wrong, C. thalictroides is something different than wisteria (mentioned by By_a_coo), right? Wisteria is H. difformis, and C. thalictroides is water sprite? So, if both these plants can tolerate brackish water, then that's very good news :)

I'll keep the goby-space in mind, it almost seems like keeping multiple gobies is a higher risk than keeping multiple puffers?? :O
That's right, also Ceratophyllum demersum (Hornwort) did quite well for me until the temperature rose in the summer months...

I wouldn't have said that the BBG's are a higher risk than multiple puffers only because the gobies concentrate on their conspecifics rather than their conspecifics and the rest of the community. But if they have a large enough territory they won't bother each other.

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Re: Figure 8 puffers

Post by Minipuff » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:06 am

Yes, sorry, I meant the risk for conspecifics, I know they are okay with other species ;)

Good to know that also hornworth may work, although I'm not a big fan of it... But it sucks up a lot of nitrate, which is good for an F8 tank.

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