Mangroves in Tank

[skoram]

It took a LOT of work but I finally got my wife to agree to letting me set up a 202 liter (~53 US gal) brackish/marine tank for a green spotted puffer. I found a few places here that also sell red mangrove seedlings and my plan is to try growing 6 to 7 of them directly in the tank with the puffer to provide a more natural looking environment.

Does anyone here have some tips for growing red mangroves that they can share? I'm particularly concerned about the lighting. My wife definitely will not consent to letting me buy an elaborate and expensive lighting rig. I found some simple LED dies (such as in the link below) that have the long adjustable necks but I'm not sure if this will be sufficient.

http://sangaqua.co.kr/mall/m_mall_detai ... _goid=8324

Also, does anyone know how long it takes for the propped roots to grow down? The tank is relatively tall (45 cm) so the seedlings will initially have to be suspended quite high in order for the leaves to be emmersed.

[Pufferpunk]

My issue with this is that mangroves can only be partially submerged, which means you have to keep an open top. Puffers are very good jumpers...

[skoram]

My issue with this is that mangroves can only be partially submerged, which means you have to keep an open top. Puffers are very good jumpers...

That's a good point. How high can GSPs jump? If I keep the water level a little low relative to the top of the tank, say 10 to 15 cm, would that be sufficient? I've seen videos on YouTube of GSPs jumping out of the water to grab food out of owner's hands and it didn't seem to be that high ...

Another option might be to create a cover using a material from which I can cut holes for the mangroves, like cellophane.

[bertie 83]

You will have to be careful, they can jump quite high. You need to have a tight fitting hood but not airtight. You also must bear in mind lowering the water dramatically reduces volume, could you not attach a sump to the display and grow them in that?

[RTR]

Most puffers are strong swimmers and that translates to jumpers capable of high jumps. GSPs are strong and fast. A glass frame equal to the height of the tank would likely be needed, and could still result in damaging or fatal injuries.

Mangroves need full tropical sun 10-12 hours per day, with all of their foliage emerse (in the air above the water) and near-constant grooming and trimming. This is effectively treating the plant as largish bonsai or topiary, and is no small task in and of itself. If you are inexperienced in this art, I would suggest trying to cultivate the plant without the GSP and only adding the puffer after the tank and mangrove is well established. and semi-mature.

HTH

[geronimo69]

I have a red mangrove in the corner of my 20 gallon saltwater tank. I run a 175 Watt MH light. It grows like crazy. I will have to trim it soon.

[skoram]

Thanks for the feedback guys. 15 cm from the top would equate to about 60 liters, dropping the maximum capacity of the tank down to 140 liters/37 gallons, not counting substrate, decorations etc. Not an ideal solution.

At one shop I did find something that I think might work - basically a modular plastic grid with square openings which I recall were about 3 - 4 cm around. The mangroves could be placed through some of these openings while the rest are covered with some clear material, i.e. thin plastic sheeting, etc.

My desire to raise mangroves is almost purely aesthetic. I love having a natural look in my tanks which means I also can't stand using fake/plastic decorations.

Geronimo69: I have read that mangroves are extremely slow growers - did you do anything special for the mangrove besides the light?

[RTR]

Being trees, mangroves are not particularly slow growing. No speicalized substrae is required. I used several inches of aragonite with bits of coral rubble in it. Training and pruning is a bit tedious.

[geronimo69]

Thanks for the feedback guys. 15 cm from the top would equate to about 60 liters, dropping the maximum capacity of the tank down to 140 liters/37 gallons, not counting substrate, decorations etc. Not an ideal solution.

At one shop I did find something that I think might work - basically a modular plastic grid with square openings which I recall were about 3 - 4 cm around. The mangroves could be placed through some of these openings while the rest are covered with some clear material, i.e. thin plastic sheeting, etc.

My desire to raise mangroves is almost purely aesthetic. I love having a natural look in my tanks which means I also can't stand using fake/plastic decorations.

Geronimo69: I have read that mangroves are extremely slow growers - did you do anything special for the mangrove besides the light?

I didn't... I have the roots in the water, and the rest in the air. I have a small piece of styrofoam attached to the corner of the tank with the mangrove shoved through it. Check out this link.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/a ... /index.php

[RTR]

That ref is not awful, but is not a very good primer on handling mangroves indoors. Perhaps if the author had used much more and better light, he would have had better growth and nutrient utilization and less leaf drop (which is likely a response to inadequate humidity levels). Salt marsh/shore plants do not grow well in Sahara-level humidity.

Glass or plastic boxes are not secure homes for strongly-growing plants. That is fully valid.

[geronimo69]

That ref is not awful, but is not a very good primer on handling mangroves indoors. Perhaps if the author had used much more and better light, he would have had better growth and nutrient utilization and less leaf drop (which is likely a response to inadequate humidity levels). Salt marsh/shore plants do not grow well in Sahara-level humidity.

Glass or plastic boxes are not secure homes for strongly-growing plants. That is fully valid.

I completely agree.... But I have to say he had more info than I've been able to provide. Once I setup a larger tank (once I move within a few years) I will experiment with different setups for mangroves. I have a good source for them here in Winnipeg, so I think could be a fun and educational experience.

[skoram]

Humidity is something I've been concerned about, since most of a mangrove is exposed to air. Winters in Korea are very dry, not to mention the drying that occurs through use of AC in warmer months. Do you advise a particular system of humidifying be used for mangroves?

On a separate note (not sure if I should create a new thread for this) I need to decide on a filter for this tank. I'm debating between an HoB like the Eheim Liberty 200 (they don't sell AquaClears here, this is good representation of what's available in Korea: http://www.greenfish.co.kr/shop/list.ht ... at_uid=100) or a cannister (probably the Eheim Classic 2215 or 17). Don't have any room for a sump - most homes in Korea are very small. Any thoughts?

[RTR]

My house is humidified in winter, plus I have a lot of fish tanks. In summer the AC can be an issue, as It would operate best at lower humidity than I allow.

My mangrove was in this room (computers and spare bedroom) and had a small automated mist device operating periodically as needed. It was not used in the winter, as the HVAC humidifier plus the tanks and house plants (not trivial) keep the humidity adequate, even if not at swamp levels.

I don't remember what the filtration was on that tank, but it likely was canisters. That set-up was quite some years back. Today it would be FOWLR plus skimmer plus the mangrove with high intensity lighting. The lighting adds cost in the summer with AC, but is less of an add-on to the bill in winter.

[Pufferpunk]

I have 2g dehumidifiers in 2 rooms in my home during the winter & empty them every day or 2.

[Corvus]

I went the bonsai route with three mangroves in a GSP tank for about 5 years. The problems have already been noted here, in my case I guess it was mostly a lack of light (I only had two bulbs on this setup). I had the impression the higher the salinity was, the more problematic was it for the mangroves. I used an adapted lid, so humidity was no problem. In the end I decided to increase salinity a little more and replaced them (massive roots!) by the usual soft corals - much easier and in the long run this point should not be underestimated.