47 Gallon tank, f8 on his own??

[JerseyMike]

Hello!

So I will be moving house in a month. I'm gonna be reducing my tanks from 3 to 2 (one of those obviously being a snail breeding tank).
I'm gonna keep my 180l, which I think is 47Gal.
I want to do a proper F8 setup, and have read all of the recent posts, and that brackish water plant article was great.

The tank is a Jewel Triagon 180 (so a corner tank), i'm gonna use the internal filter proved, plus an external aqua one cannister filter.

I want to make it heavily decorated, with 3d back grounds, and different levels etc.. to look like a brackish water river system.

My question (finally!) is this... I have seen loads of people talking about the number of F8's they can have in a setup, but I thought they were most long lived being kept individually?

I want this puffer to be as long lived and happy as possible.

I know that minimum means 'minimum' but would this just look ridiculous??

[goldielocke76]

Hello!

So I will be moving house in a month. I'm gonna be reducing my tanks from 3 to 2 (one of those obviously being a snail breeding tank).
I'm gonna keep my 180l, which I think is 47Gal.
I want to do a proper F8 setup, and have read all of the recent posts, and that brackish water plant article was great.

The tank is a Jewel Triagon 180 (so a corner tank), i'm gonna use the internal filter proved, plus an external aqua one cannister filter.

I want to make it heavily decorated, with 3d back grounds, and different levels etc.. to look like a brackish water river system.

My question (finally!) is this... I have seen loads of people talking about the number of F8's they can have in a setup, but I thought they were most long lived being kept individually?

I want this puffer to be as long lived and happy as possible.

I know that minimum means 'minimum' but would this just look ridiculous??

Hey there! Not sure if it helps at all, but I just put my F8 in his very own 36 gallon aquarium. I know it's not as big as yours, and seriously contemplated thinking about putting some bottom cleaners in there, but, he just looks so ridiculously happy in there by himself, I just don't even want to mess with him. I would maybe consider finding something that likes brackish that makes a good clean up crew, but I honestly think he would be much happier by being the only puffer in there.

HTH =)

[hadla]

honestly, i would get 2 only because id love to get another f8 to go with figgy when i move her into my fiances 29g. im just worried about it since shes been by herself for a year.

[JerseyMike]

That's such good news Goldie!

I've 3 horned nerites and a zebra nertie snail, which i'm prepared to 'risk' with him.
I just didn't want him to look lost, but if yours is happy then i'm sure he'd be more than happy.
Thanks!

[JerseyMike]

honestly, i would get 2 only because id love to get another f8 to go with figgy when i move her into my fiances 29g. im just worried about it since shes been by herself for a year.

But is it not happier on it's own?
From what I've read there always appear to an alpha F8, and neither would be as long lived as if they lived on their own?
There is so much conflicting info out there.

[T.k]

I look forward to your new tank and picture

[goldielocke76]

honestly, i would get 2 only because id love to get another f8 to go with figgy when i move her into my fiances 29g. im just worried about it since shes been by herself for a year.

But is it not happier on it's own?
From what I've read there always appear to an alpha F8, and neither would be as long lived as if they lived on their own?
There is so much conflicting info out there.

That's how I got Luau. One of the members here had two in a 29 gallon. One was definitely a "dominate" puffer, and the other one was Luau. She had had them both when they were super small, and they were fine. But as they got bigger, one emerged as the more dominate one, even though they were in a tank big enough for both. She didn't want to take him back to the LFS, and she knew I had been looking for a smaller one for months. She asked me if I was interested in adopting him from her, and I immediately accepted. I know he was very happy with her, and she took excellent care of them both. I hazard a guess though and say that he was definitely more on the shy side at first, from being dominated in the tank. Kinda kept to only parts of the tank, and not the whole tank. Once he realized he was the only one in there, he became more active. Even more active now that he's all by himself in a huge tank and he knows he's the only one in there! I must say the changes I have seen in him is astounding. But, I love to see him happy.

[hadla]

honestly, i would get 2 only because id love to get another f8 to go with figgy when i move her into my fiances 29g. im just worried about it since shes been by herself for a year.

But is it not happier on it's own?
From what I've read there always appear to an alpha F8, and neither would be as long lived as if they lived on their own?
There is so much conflicting info out there.

That's how I got Luau. One of the members here had two in a 29 gallon. One was definitely a "dominate" puffer, and the other one was Luau. She had had them both when they were super small, and they were fine. But as they got bigger, one emerged as the more dominate one, even though they were in a tank big enough for both. She didn't want to take him back to the LFS, and she knew I had been looking for a smaller one for months. She asked me if I was interested in adopting him from her, and I immediately accepted. I know he was very happy with her, and she took excellent care of them both. I hazard a guess though and say that he was definitely more on the shy side at first, from being dominated in the tank. Kinda kept to only parts of the tank, and not the whole tank. Once he realized he was the only one in there, he became more active. Even more active now that he's all by himself in a huge tank and he knows he's the only one in there! I must say the changes I have seen in him is astounding. But, I love to see him happy.

yeah thats the whole thing i was thinking of. i just thought maybe figgy might be lonely by herself... but maybe not. i wonder if it would work in a group of 3 or more in a bigger tank.

[goldielocke76]

Hmm I seriously wouldn't do that unless I had 30 gallons per fish. I had Luau in a 20 gallon, and IMO, that's too small even though we say bare min is 15 gallons. Luau and Hula were in a 29 gallon and there were still dominance issues. Unless I could boast a 90+ gallon tank, I don't think it would be worth the stress to the humans or the puffers. And in a smaller than 90 gallon tank, the bioload (which is already hugely huge) would be GINORMUS!! LoL

[hadla]

Hmm I seriously wouldn't do that unless I had 30 gallons per fish. I had Luau in a 20 gallon, and IMO, that's too small even though we say bare min is 15 gallons. Luau and Hula were in a 29 gallon and there were still dominance issues. Unless I could boast a 90+ gallon tank, I don't think it would be worth the stress to the humans or the puffers. And in a smaller than 90 gallon tank, the bioload (which is already hugely huge) would be GINORMUS!! LoL

wow 90 gallons for 3 small fish XD that sounds worse than having over 100 gallons for a fahaka lol i think ill just stick with the snails in her tank then. i dont think she noticed the snail yet. and as i type this i looked over and she pecked at it! lol she keeps going back but i think she realizes there is nowhere for her to peck at it! those snails are really good at 'hiding' unlike mystery snails that have their whole body out when moving around. im going to have to get more of htem! this one is an algae eating machine lol i put it down in the corner near some algae covered glass and it cleared away about a half dollar size in 2 hours! oh shoot, figgy is searching around trying to see if she can get at it

edit: i love how i go up to the tank, she ignores the snail! i feel like i need binoculars to watch it from far away XD

anyway, sorry, i didnt mean to hijack the thread lol

[goldielocke76]

K after this, I will give the thread back, but yes I would do 90+ gallons for 3 little fish haha. You have to think of how big they are going to be long term, also, RTR mentioned something about PP's status: solution to pollution is dilution. If you have 3 F8's in a 60 gallon, if you miss a water change by say, 2 days, your nitrate readings could potentially be off the charts. This could in turn be detrimental to a puffer's health. However, if you have more water volume per fish, those two days would matter (I am NOT advocating that you do not keep up on water changes) but, missing those two days wouldn't be as bad in a bigger tank because of the water volume per fish. (Again, I'm NOT ADVOCATING THAT YOU SHOULD NOT DO WATER CHANGES, you should do them every week!). Hopefully, that makes any sense. On a side note, I am a worry wart, so I am going to try to get a set up that will give me a less amount of stress in the long run. Besides, it's cheaper if you get them in to their "forever tank" from the get go instead of having to do upgrade after upgrade. (Learned this lesson with my betta.)

**not only that, think of how much territory they need when they are full grown. You don't want aggression problems or else you are going to be stuck upgrading anyways. Again, just my two cents. I try to think long term instead of "in the now"

Sorry, you can have your thread back

[RTR]

If you have two fish of the same species, there will almost always be a top dog and an under dog. The top dog's lifespan will not be affected much if at all, the under dog's lifespan will be reduced. It does seem that dominance is less stressful than submission, or perhaps less frustrating - whatever the issue or our interpretation of the issues, singletons live longer lives than pairs or trios.

FWIW, they fish will be more active if they can see conspecifics (other fish of the same species) in adjacent tanks than they would be without sight of others of their own kind. It is highly likely that water exchange between the adjacent tanks also increases activity. That is likely from pheromones which we cannot detect. But co-housing in the same tank with physical contact available is stressful to some degree. Singletons do live longer.

[JerseyMike]

If you have two fish of the same species, there will almost always be a top dog and an under dog. The top dog's lifespan will not be affected much if at all, the under dog's lifespan will be reduced. It does seem that dominance is less stressful than submission, or perhaps less frustrating - whatever the issue or our interpretation of the issues, singletons live longer lives than pairs or trios.

FWIW, they fish will be more active if they can see conspecifics (other fish of the same species) in adjacent tanks than they would be without sight of others of their own kind. It is highly likely that water exchange between the adjacent tanks also increases activity. That is likely from pheromones which we cannot detect. But co-housing in the same tank with physical contact available is stressful to some degree. Singletons do live longer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what your basically saying is that an individual will live longer, but they will be more active if they can see/sense others of the same species?
As I do not have room for two setups, I would have to put both puffers in the same tank. To this regard what is in the puffers best interest?
To have an active life with a degree of stress for the 'under dog', and shorter life expectancy; or live longer and potentially be less active?

[bertie 83]

Singletons are more responsive to you. It's definately better for the underdog to be alone. So it's the lesser of two evils I suppose. I can't really answer better than that

[goldielocke76]

If you have two fish of the same species, there will almost always be a top dog and an under dog. The top dog's lifespan will not be affected much if at all, the under dog's lifespan will be reduced. It does seem that dominance is less stressful than submission, or perhaps less frustrating - whatever the issue or our interpretation of the issues, singletons live longer lives than pairs or trios.

FWIW, they fish will be more active if they can see conspecifics (other fish of the same species) in adjacent tanks than they would be without sight of others of their own kind. It is highly likely that water exchange between the adjacent tanks also increases activity. That is likely from pheromones which we cannot detect. But co-housing in the same tank with physical contact available is stressful to some degree. Singletons do live longer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what your basically saying is that an individual will live longer, but they will be more active if they can see/sense others of the same species?
"FWIW, they fish will be more active if they can see conspecifics (other fish of the same species) in adjacent tanks than they would be without sight of others of their own kind. It is highly likely that water exchange between the adjacent tanks also increases activity."

As I do not have room for two setups, I would have to put both puffers in the same tank. To this regard what is in the puffers best interest?
"If you have two fish of the same species, there will almost always be a top dog and an under dog. The top dog's lifespan will not be affected much if at all, the under dog's lifespan will be reduced. "

To have an active life with a degree of stress for the 'under dog', and shorter life expectancy; or live longer and potentially be less active?

".....singletons live longer lives than pairs or trios." and also "The top dog's lifespan will not be affected much if at all, the under dog's lifespan will be reduced."

Those being answered, puffers are normally active no matter what. They hunt, they inspect, they explore. If you are worried that not having him next to a tank with another puffer in it will make him hide at the bottom or in a corner all day, that's not the case. They get super excited to see you and love to explore (that's why such a complex simulated environment is needed) and hunt. I put a herd of ghost shrimp in my tank (usually after I feed Luau first.) He doesn't immediately go after them, but once he knows they are there, he hunts and chases them around. It usually takes about a week for him to catch all of them. I put some food in the bottom so the gut load so Luau gets his veggies.

Their personalities emerge and I think you will be fine with only one tank and one puff. In the future when it's feasible, and you want to add another tank with water transfers, do so, but don't stress out about it now. Just make sure your one puff is happy, healthy and entertained in his tank first. Getting the setup in the tank, then getting the tank cycled is probably the biggest "chore" to getting a puffer. (I used chore because I didn't know what else to use). But you want to have a complex environment, enough tank space, and a cycled tank before getting a puffer. One step at a time