Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

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hadla
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Re: Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

Post by hadla »

Anubias is your friend :)
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Hillehaus
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Re: Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

Post by Hillehaus »

Heh, funny thing is...your plants would be just fine in poo sludge.

I would go with Java moss and Java fern. Both are pretty robust.

Anubias is another one that is tough to kill.

When all else fails, water sprite. It's a fern that grows fast and needs to be frequently trimmed but, you literally can't kill it.

I've mentioned it before but, your water is perfect. Your lighting is more than suitable. I really think it is your substrate. Gravel just isn't optimal to grow plants in. Gravel is pretty much all inert quarts or feldspar (sorry, geologist here). It is minerally (is that a word?) depleted.

Plants (terrestrial and aquatic) need these 3 things to grow:
1) light: you have this
2) CO2: you've got this too...nut much but it's there.
3) nutrients/minerals: this seems to be missing. They are found in the water column as nitrates and phosphates and in the substrate as minerals.

Don't give up yet! All I'd recommend is that you remove your gravel. Add in an ecocomplete-type substrate at the bottom, you can toss your gravel on top of this if you like the look. Plant your plants so they can root in the substrate and you're good to go!
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Re: Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

Post by TheStig »

Hey Hillehaus,

Thanks for your input. I was thinking of asking you about the Eco-Complete actually! I was reading up on it briefly today.

Holding off for now, till my Fish Fund gets replenished. This hobby, despite my humble 10 gallon, is not easy on the pocket. When I got convinced into this fish-keeping thing, my best friend (an avid aquarist who keeps FW, B, SW) made it sound so simple, that I could easily do this baller-on-a-budget. I should know by now that everything is relative. :shock:

So, on with my concern..

I enjoy re-arranging (do your puffers follow closely & get in the way? mine hover closely w/ everything I do) my tank, so that is a reason I hesitate to root plants. I guess I am still dissatisfied with the feng shui. Also, the puffers really enjoy re-exploring their tank. For those with planted tanks and puffers, how do they gravel vac? Is it even OK to gravel vac Eco-Complete? If I go with it, I don't plan to top it off with the gravel. I like the dark substrate. And for those who do top it off with another substrate, how do they gravel vac to avoid mixing both? Hmm...

Also, do you rinse off Eco-Complete? I have read people who do and those who don't. Is it possible to do half the tank with that and other side with gravel? Is that weird?

I will definitely have more questions if and when I am ready to do it. For now, it will be easier if I go with the Java Fern, Moss, Wisteria, and Water Sprite. Hillehaus, I wouldn't dare be confident about Water Sprite's superhero can't-kill-it powers once under my care.

Again, thanks for the reply. Too bad you aren't around the corner, cos I'll drop that stupid Ludwigia on your doorstep in a heartbeat, with a bonnet, tucked in a basket, and a note pinned to it - "Please Love Me".
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Hillehaus
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Re: Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

Post by Hillehaus »

I kind of "set and forget" my eco-complete. Since I capped it with sand, gravel-vac is not necessary. I just kind of hover over the sand that conveniently prevents the waste from reaching the eco-complete while making it easy to vac up the waste.

Taking a look back at your tank, and given that you like to rearrange, I'd just plant them all in terra cotta pots. You can do the same thing I mentioned but, rather than do the whole tank, put the eco-complete in the bottom of your terra cotta pot, and cap it with gravel so it matches its surroundings. That way your plants remain mobile but can still root into something good. It also lets you vac the hell out of the rest of the tank, whenever you want without disturbing anything. You get to rearrange as much or little as you want. My DPs puffers varied in their reactions. One of them exhibited pure terror every time I would stick my hand in the tank and flee. The other two were bold enough to hover around me while I was messing around. One even got too close to the vac and took a ride into the bucket...that was fun...

Wait until you get the saltwater bug. I still shudder to admit how much my tank set up cost. Whenever my wife asks, I mutter and say I bought it all used and then quickly change the subject.

One last warning: water sprite ends up getting huge. I had to take it out of the tank because it was overgrowing its space.
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Iliveinazoo
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Re: Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

Post by Iliveinazoo »

TheStig wrote:I just about had it with aquatic plants. I am so close to abandoning ship. Maybe I'll hop into Hadla's first, and dabble with non-stems. Is Ludwigia considered a stem plant? Cos I hate that thing!

So, I picked up Potassium and Iron few days ago, to go with my Flourish. The stupid Ludwigia (all 5 of them) started sprouting off-shoots all along the stem, and the baby leaves are growing & looking good, with a reddish tinge. No more yellowing either, but maybe cos there are no more mature leaves left to yellow. Then, the top leaves started dying! Just the top ones started browning at the tips + edges, and slowly spreads. I snipped the entire top off, a couple of nodes below. Stems are healthy, roots are everywhere. It's like playing with my emotions, or something. I hate it but I can't bear to get rid of it cos it has baby leaves.

This Ludwigia is probably the baldest plant I know. So much for breaking up the line of sight for my puffers, this one. Honestly, I spend more time staring at this stupid plant than my Puffers.

I think it's screwing up my water too. Every since I brought this plant home, I have been battling with stubborn surface film that traps bubbles. The water tension is high, even though I have surface agitation from my HOB filter.

I do a 50% WC once a week + gravel vac. There is no excess food floating around cos I feed my fish 1 worm at a time. I always test my water mid-week, and it consistently shows 0 / 0 / 5 - 10ppm. Last week, I noticed when I scoop the surface water out (getting rid of bubbles and film), I noticed the water is a little discoloured, like an incredibly faint tint of yellow, and the only reason I can see it is because I use a white plastic container. One can't tell just looking at my tank. So this weekend, when I did my WC, I did a 70% WC, gravel-vac 3/4 of my tank, and dunked-rinse my plants, rocks, driftwood and terra cotta pots in RO water. Swished the filter media in tank water, and rinsed the filter body well... The next day, that film is back.

I think I am just going see if my LFS wants that stupid Ludwigia back. I just want low low low care plants that can even survive a poo sludge, not that I will ever let my tank get that way. But you get my drift.
The film will have more to do with the protein from the worms rather than waste from disintegrating leaves, but dying leaves should be removed anyway. Is it actually a film or blue green algae? If blue green algae consider upgrading your HOB to a canister filter.

If you are co sidering only water sprite, java fern, moss and anubias then there is no reason to use a planted substrate as the plants will not be buried in the substrate. If you plan on keeping stems or other 'rooted' plants then an active substrate will help but you don't 'need' one, it will allow you to dose ferts leaner and miss a few days of water column dosing but even with an active substrate you should still dose the water column. Your plants can take in all ferts they need through water column dosing

I have never had to dose iron separately to my tank. I add NPK and trace elements with a weekly dose of liquid carbon, lighting is 1.5WP(US)G. I use dry powders to make up my own fert mixture simply to save money, nitrate makes up the greatest concentration of the liquid by far followed by phosphate and then potassium.

The below website link helped me a lot:
http://www.ukaps.org/index.php?page=dos ... -dry-salts

I didn't want to add nitrate or phosphate to my aquarium but was convinced to give it a go even at higher concentrations to what manufacturers recommend, this was the point that my plants stopped dying and started to grow.
TheStig
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Re: Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

Post by TheStig »

Hillehaus,

Haha... "vac the hell out of the rest of the tank". It gives me so much joy, it's like owning a water Dyson. I hope your poor DP turned out fine, and at least enjoyed the ride till it lasted. Poor thing.

I don't think I will catch the SW bug. (famous last words, huh?) It is so much work, way too complicated, and incredibly expensive. I adore the F8s and GSPs, but refuse entertain the idea of keeping them. Had a chuckle @ you taking preventative damage control w/ your wife. There is a Youtube video of this aquarist on how to deal with the wife when getting a new setup. It was a miracle my friend convinced me to start a little FW tank. I already have GSDs, parrots, cats, and a horse... so I wasn't looking for more work. But she broke me. Ugh. Now I am trying not to go down that "I wish I got a bigger tank" regret.

Hi Iliveinazoo,

Yea, it's definitely a film on the surface. It has a shiny, oily sheen to it. I tackle it by either using a paper towel or scooping the water up at an angle. But this is just a short-term fix. I have sufficient surface agitation so not sure why it keeps coming back. I never had this problem till I added the Ludwigia. I had my DPs for over a month prior to adding the stem plants, and they are mostly on a diet of bloodworms, and the occasional ramshorn here and there. But I am particular about not leaving leftovers in the tank, so I am unsure why the proteins / DOCs (???) suddenly became a problem. I am completely stumped, so looking for experience and knowledge...

Thanks for your insight on how to go about dealing with plants in my particular tank setup and explaining about ferts.

Love this forum. What great people!
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Kazimir
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Re: Brown Thumbs killing even Hardy Plants. Advice?

Post by Kazimir »

I ventured into planted tanks about 6 months ago an love them. With that said, 1) how long have your plants been in the tank? Some plants are grown emersed (above water) and will take a month or so to convert and the old leaves will die. Others can take 2-6 weeks to fully acclimate to a tank depending on how close your parameters are to the tank they came from. 2)If you use lotions or skin products on your hands, be sure to wash them thoroughly before putting you hands in the tank. These products can have negative effects. 3) If you have too much light, your plants will grow too fast if not fertilized. This will cause the old leaves to die off and the new leaves to look so so.
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