stabilizing harder fw ph, how do i do it.?

[defool89]

Besides getting large rocks and aragonite subtrate what other forms sre there besides using liquid buffers?

I want to knock up my ph a few knotches permanantly but i do not want to add a sandy subtrate. What shall thy recommend thee?

Is there a form of subtrate i can add that is gravel like. The only thing i find is sand but maybe I'm looking over things because i just dont know what to look for. Should i just settle for a flat stone and stick ot under my current subtrate? All suggestions welcomed

[Pufferpunk]

You could use crushed coral but be sure you clean it well, weekly.

[Pufferpunk]

You could use crushed coral but be sure you clean it well, weekly.

[Terrance]

I have a mesh bag with crushed coral filter. It will be easy to replace once my pH drops, hopefully not within the next year.

[defool89]

I have a mesh bag with crushed coral filter. It will be easy to replace once my pH drops, hopefully not within the next year.

Its in the filter how much do you have in how many gallons? Do you clean it? How much of an affect as in points wise is the effect?

[Terrance]

I don't really remember honestly. I think I have about 1/4lb bags of it in both my puffer tanks. pH is always 7.6 and before was ~7. My crushed coral isn't all crushed coral though. Its half crushed coral and half something else. I can't remember what its called.

Perhaps you could put a small piece of Texas holy rock in your filter.

[RTR]

Question #1: Why do you want to "raise the pH permanently"?
-The pH is responsive to and controlled by the KH (carbonate/bicarbonate hardness) of the water. As the KH decreases, the pH drops.
-The KH is used up in bacterial nitrification. Every milli-equivalent of ammonia oxidized to nitrate uses up two milli-equivalents of bicarbonate. That is the nature of aerobic bacterial nitrification. The KH is replenished by water changes and by aragonite substrates and also by dead coral decore (but I cannot honestly suggest that unlees you know that it was harvested already dead). I also have used small canisters with mesh bags of coral rubble (harvested as such) which are swapped out approximately monthly, rinsed and dried while a second bag is in the canister. Those bag by good water flow do help support the KH quite well IME.
-KH is dynamic, it is never "set & forget", so it must be monitored routinely. In hard water and/or low BW tanks, it as variable as nitrate titers. For F-89s it is as important or more so than the specific gravity in low BW tanks. DPs do not seem as sensitive as F-8s to me.
-If liquid commercial buffers are used, IMHO & IME, the tank is doomed. Commercial buffers are one of the best ways I know of to destroy tanks. I never use them, period.

Stability is highly desirable in semi-closed systems. However, that stability is dynamic, it is not and cannot be static. So question #2 is: Why do you think a high pH/KH is important in this tank?
-Stability is good, and water parameters should always be compared to the baseline water parameters. But is dynamic, not static. Nitrates and DOC tend to increase with time. Nitrates may be markedly reduced by LR in SW tanks or by live plants in FW or low BW tanks. DOCs may be reduced by skimmer in SW tanks and by partial water changes in all others. Calcium and/or magnesium levels may be supported by aragonite substrates and/or coral rublle canisters. Carbonates/bicarbonates are supported by aragonite and/or coral rubble,
FYI: Argonite is much more soluble than crushed coral, so is much more effective in supporting those parameters than is crushed coral.
FYI: To be effective, coral rubble may be harmed by biofilm blocking solution of the minerals. If it is used as a supplement, it does better overall if regularly rinsed and dried.

HTH

[defool89]

Sensei Rtr i do believe stability is important and would like a higher stable PH for my fahaka tank and also for my f8 tank. Because if my ph is stabalized that means my kh is too from what I'm reading. If aragonite assists in the nitrification process that means a higher load of eroded aragonite would help stabalize the ph more by giving more head way for thr kh ans then restored afyer a water change right? The f8 is a simple fix to replace the subtrate to aragonite sand which is a simple and inexpensive fix being a 20g. I have recently aquired that f8 and am slowly changing its water parameters from what the fish store had him in, community freshwater with gravel to brackish hard water. Now, thats a slow and healthy resolve I'm doing week by week.

The fahaka is my pride and joy and he is healthy and meaner by the day. But his water is always at a stable 7. Its not bad i know but i would like to raise it a few points for the sake of longevity. I do know they come from changing african waters and do well there but that's in the wild where their immune system is from my understanding, superior. My inquiry is for a long term harder water under ph of 8 to have him live as long as possible. Thanks for all thst, i will look into it further but that is why i want to do this and believe first hand forum experience is much better than thinking i found the answer from an article online. Thanks

[bertie 83]

Your fahaka will suffer no I'll effects from a stable ph of 7. If its not broken don't fix it. Spend the time you were going to spend changing things to do more partials, I love changing water and my fish love it too. Don't rush into anything that really will not benefit any one, you will only loose your own time which is important.

[defool89]

You are quite possibly correct but i would haalve not looked up kh if i didnt ask. I like thinking of hypothetical situations so i can look further into the chemistry thats going on. Maintsreem aquaria doesn't care to go this far into what makes things tic if you toc something else. All seems like a big domino maze effect. If you drop this domino all these dominos will fall, if you drop the other domino all these dominos will fall, if you drop the corner domino everything collapses. Plants fish and water, so fascinating.

[Pufferpunk]

Please do nothing to change your tap water. Just keep up with larg weekly WC & your puffer will live a long time.

[defool89]

Please do nothing to change your tap water. Just keep up with larg weekly WC & your puffer will live a long time.

The water is the corner domino. Okay.

[RTR]

Fahakas are river main channel fish in areas with strong seasonal differences in water parameters. They can handle large swings in water profiles seasonally. But in captivity, fish and especially puffer fish will do better longer in relatively stable water conditions. There are non-trivial differences in semi-closed systems (regular fish tanks with periodic water changes are different fro flow-through systems).

If there is nothing wrong with your tap water, it is best not to do water modification. If you use substrates which dissolve and harden the water, you do need to hold your freshly drawn water in reservoirs with those materials so that the can be pre-equilibrated with the higher KH and pH before you add them to the tank. Otherwise you are allowing the water to change in the tank, replacing it different water (both KH and pH different) and then gradually adapt until it is time to change water again next week. That is not stability.

Water modification is possible and not especially hard. But it requires time and pretreatment. Therefore it costs money and space and time. Doing in-tank changes is poor fish-keeping practices. Routine water changes anre not counter-productive, they are bringing the water back to where it was a week ago. If you do a partial and the start changing the water profile in the tank, you are not reaching stability, you are guaranteeing constant instability with 24/7 changes in water profile. If you want to use modified water, you need to do the modification before it goes into the tank with the fish. Otherwise you are better off with acceptable tap water.

In the wild fish may handle wide ranges of water profile over the course of a year. But the hazards in the wild are non-trivial. The much longer lives our fish show in captivity (with proper care) are in part from relatively stable conditions. Stable high water quality is non-trivial.