Hello!
I have been checking out this forum for a while now but never registered. What a great resource! I have a question actually about a couple of my puffers. I have a juvenile Stars and Stripes puffer in a 120G tank (He will get a bigger tank in a year or so). I also have a two year old Green Spotted Puffer in a 40G that is now all the way up to marine water. I was hoping to keep both of them together eventually but first wanted to see what people here thought. Anyone done this? I saw that someone had a GSP with a Dogface and that worked out.
My GSP does have tankmates and leaves them alone. Hes very shy actually and is often amongst the rocks. My Stars and Stripes Puffer is also very gentle as far as I can tell but much more active and just CRAVES attention. My first thought is that it would work but then I think of feeding time...Still don't think they would hurt each other on purpose but maybe an accident?
The Stars and Stripes will obviously end up being a much bigger puffer at around 15 or 16 inches and the GSP at around 5 or 6 inches. At first I thought this may be a problem but then the more I thought about it, I think that maybe it would be better than two puffers that are the same size? Less aggression?
Other thing I thought of, is maybe keeping then separated with egg crate for a bit in the same tank to see how they act towards each other? As well as rearranging the LR, so no territories are already developed.
Anyways...thoughts on this would be good. The reason I am looking into this is, I have to get rid of one tank. Theres no way I can give up my Stars and Stripes but I have had my GSP for two years now! I really want to keep both. I hope I can figure this out! Any suggestions to make this easier would be so welcomed.
Thanks!
PS. Thought people may be interested to hear (kind of sad though) that on the island I am from, Trinidad (Caribbean), we often find washed up Porcupine Puffers! Not sure why this happens but they usually have no signs of a struggle or stress...just dead on the beach. Anyone know why this happens???
My Puffers..What should I do?
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Nick
- Former Staff Member
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I have a 3"+ gsp with a 1"+ gsp, thats about the same size difference by proportion, and they get along fine, in fact the smaller puffer is the more aggresive eater. I'd say try it out, and use the egg crate separater for a while at least unless you will be near the tank a lot early on to watch for aggression. There could be many reasons dead porcs wash up. Dolphins will squeeze them in their mouths to dig at their gums with the spines, this can kill them even though the dolphins do not bite deeply enough to pierce their skin and let them go afterwords. Fishermen also catch them, and they die of puffing air sometime after being throw back.
No matter how magnificent your successes or devastating your failures, the worlds' approximately 5 billion impoverished people could not possibly care less.
Yes, I have unfortunately seen fishermen kill them or let them puff up with air, its really sad! Im kind of embarassed that it happens here. I never realized that dolphins will kill them. I also quite often see people snorkeling and playing with/torturing them. They are very easy to catch and I have even had some swim right up to me! They seem very trusting, even in the ocean.
Anyways, I think I will try the seperater for a bit and give it a try. Eventually they would both go into a 180G and maybe that would help even more.
Thanks for your reply.
Anyways, I think I will try the seperater for a bit and give it a try. Eventually they would both go into a 180G and maybe that would help even more.
Thanks for your reply.
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
Welcome to The Puffer Forum, Trinigirl! 
Your idea sounds very risky to me. Although your puffers seem docile when separate from other puffers, that's no way to judge how the would act being in the same tank. I'm also nervous about keeping an aggressive puffer like a GSP in with a puffer that will get much larger and that could cause serious injury to it if bitten. Size is no guarantee of compatibility, on the contrary it can cause more danger.
Feeding would also be nerve-wracking because both puffers will be very enthusiastic feeders... If they both went for the same thing and the larger puff bit your GSP's face by accident, that could be deadly. Think of the difference in size not only by length but by girth; that Arothron hispidus will be massive in comparison!
I recently considered co-housing a Sharpnosed puffer and a GSP, but decided against it because of size difference danger, and there's only a 2" disparity between those two species! A 14" disparity (Arothron hispidus will attain a maximum size of 20" when well cared for) would be very risky.
I would not attempt to co-house them unless you had a much larger system (at least 150 gallons) and a good method to avoid problems during feeding time. The GSP is in a wonderful set-up, why ruin a good thing?
Your idea sounds very risky to me. Although your puffers seem docile when separate from other puffers, that's no way to judge how the would act being in the same tank. I'm also nervous about keeping an aggressive puffer like a GSP in with a puffer that will get much larger and that could cause serious injury to it if bitten. Size is no guarantee of compatibility, on the contrary it can cause more danger.
Feeding would also be nerve-wracking because both puffers will be very enthusiastic feeders... If they both went for the same thing and the larger puff bit your GSP's face by accident, that could be deadly. Think of the difference in size not only by length but by girth; that Arothron hispidus will be massive in comparison!
I recently considered co-housing a Sharpnosed puffer and a GSP, but decided against it because of size difference danger, and there's only a 2" disparity between those two species! A 14" disparity (Arothron hispidus will attain a maximum size of 20" when well cared for) would be very risky.
I would not attempt to co-house them unless you had a much larger system (at least 150 gallons) and a good method to avoid problems during feeding time. The GSP is in a wonderful set-up, why ruin a good thing?
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
I'm sorry, I missed that part of your thread.
Maybe you can try the egg crate to separate them, but you'll be making the Arothron hispidus even more cramped and the water quality may be hard to maintain (I'm talking long-term here). Will you be able to get a larger tank some time in the near future? A roomier tank combined with strategic feeding might work long term.
It would be a shame to have to get rid of either puff. Hopefully you can work something out!
Maybe you can try the egg crate to separate them, but you'll be making the Arothron hispidus even more cramped and the water quality may be hard to maintain (I'm talking long-term here). Will you be able to get a larger tank some time in the near future? A roomier tank combined with strategic feeding might work long term.
It would be a shame to have to get rid of either puff. Hopefully you can work something out!
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Yes, I am setting up a 180G in a about a year when I move.
I really do not want to "get rid" of either puffer but I also do not want to give them a poor life because I am selfish. Unfortunately, when I bought the Stars and Stripes, he was sold to me as a "rare" dogface and I was told I only need about 100G. I really did not know any better until I came here and realized that he is a Stars and Stripes. And he gets much bigger than a dogface!
I really have no idea what to do now! Maybe I should be giving up the Stars and Stripes, since he is the newer puffer and gets so big?
I really do not want to "get rid" of either puffer but I also do not want to give them a poor life because I am selfish. Unfortunately, when I bought the Stars and Stripes, he was sold to me as a "rare" dogface and I was told I only need about 100G. I really did not know any better until I came here and realized that he is a Stars and Stripes. And he gets much bigger than a dogface!
I really have no idea what to do now! Maybe I should be giving up the Stars and Stripes, since he is the newer puffer and gets so big?
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
It is possible he was mistaken by the dealer for a Arothron manilensis which is somewhat rare, and grows to 12 inches in length.
The 180 gallon would certainly give the puffers more room. How big are the Arothron hispidus & the GSP right now? Depending on how happy you can be with the risk of having them together (much less risky short-term if they are close in size right now) or looking at an egg crate-divider for a year, you could keep them both if you are sure you will be setting up that larger tank.
Otherwise, think along the lines of which you think you will enjoy more and be able to care for. Will a 150+ gallon become a pain for you in the long run? Will the lessened possibilities for tankmates in the 40 gallon be a con?
Again, if they are both close in size right now, I think it would be alright to have them co-habitate (divider or no, that's all based on your judgment of their temperaments) for a year and then move into the larger 180 gallon. When GSPs are raised from juveniles together they seem to get along better as adults, and I think the only real danger is stress to the Stars and Stripes by a nippy GSP or an accidental bite from the Stars & Stripes. An intentional attack by the Arothron hispidus would be unusual because from what I have read they are rather 'docile' as far as puffer fish go. It certainly isn't an ideal situation for the GSP, but it is an option if you want to keep them both.
The 180 gallon would certainly give the puffers more room. How big are the Arothron hispidus & the GSP right now? Depending on how happy you can be with the risk of having them together (much less risky short-term if they are close in size right now) or looking at an egg crate-divider for a year, you could keep them both if you are sure you will be setting up that larger tank.
Otherwise, think along the lines of which you think you will enjoy more and be able to care for. Will a 150+ gallon become a pain for you in the long run? Will the lessened possibilities for tankmates in the 40 gallon be a con?
Again, if they are both close in size right now, I think it would be alright to have them co-habitate (divider or no, that's all based on your judgment of their temperaments) for a year and then move into the larger 180 gallon. When GSPs are raised from juveniles together they seem to get along better as adults, and I think the only real danger is stress to the Stars and Stripes by a nippy GSP or an accidental bite from the Stars & Stripes. An intentional attack by the Arothron hispidus would be unusual because from what I have read they are rather 'docile' as far as puffer fish go. It certainly isn't an ideal situation for the GSP, but it is an option if you want to keep them both.
Last edited by OraLacerta on Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
I just want to thank you SO much for helping me out! I am not sure what I will do yet but this is a big help.
The GSP is about 4-5 inches and the Stars and Stripes is about 6 inches but much bigger because he is very wide. I have also noticed that the Stars and Stripes is growing about an inch a month or so! So I am guessing that in a few months, he will be close to a foot and the GSP will be about 5-6 inchs and half as thick.
My GSP has a few tankmates and he has never shown any aggression towards them. Actually he has been chased by a blue green chromis before and he hid for a day in a cave after that. But I have never seen him with other puffers.
I would rather care for a larger tank, as I find it way easier. I have much better equipment for the larger tank. Most of the equipment, like the skimmer, are overkill for a 120G tank but I bought it knowing I will be setting up a bigger tank down the road. When I got the "dogface", I thought I could keep him for years in a 120G and then eventually upgrade to a bigger tank...Now with the Stars and Stripes, I know it has to be sooner than later!
I don't think the GSP will nip the Stars and Stripes but I do worry about accidental bites at feeding time. The Stars and Stripes could probably take the GSPs head off.
The GSP is about 4-5 inches and the Stars and Stripes is about 6 inches but much bigger because he is very wide. I have also noticed that the Stars and Stripes is growing about an inch a month or so! So I am guessing that in a few months, he will be close to a foot and the GSP will be about 5-6 inchs and half as thick.
My GSP has a few tankmates and he has never shown any aggression towards them. Actually he has been chased by a blue green chromis before and he hid for a day in a cave after that. But I have never seen him with other puffers.
I would rather care for a larger tank, as I find it way easier. I have much better equipment for the larger tank. Most of the equipment, like the skimmer, are overkill for a 120G tank but I bought it knowing I will be setting up a bigger tank down the road. When I got the "dogface", I thought I could keep him for years in a 120G and then eventually upgrade to a bigger tank...Now with the Stars and Stripes, I know it has to be sooner than later!
I don't think the GSP will nip the Stars and Stripes but I do worry about accidental bites at feeding time. The Stars and Stripes could probably take the GSPs head off.
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OraLacerta
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 573
- Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:51 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Tetraodon biocellatus.
RIP: C. travancoricus, Chilomycterus schoepfi. Canthigaster jactator. - Location (country): USA
- Location: USA
You're welcome, that's what we're here for!
With a 2" head start on the slower growing GSP, I don't feel a 120 gallon tank is ideal for trying to keep the two together at this point. At least this rapid growth rate in the Arothron hispidus serves as a good example as to why it is so important to keep juvenile fish in tanks large enough to house adults; they grow fast when young!
Most of the compatibility problems I have read about people having with the Arothron hispidus are either sampling slower tankmates (such as eels) or due to accidental bites during feeding. It sounds like you really want to keep a larger tank and that the Arothron hispidus is going to be your choice in the end, so I guess it's up to whether or not you want to risk adding the GSP. I wish I could say I wasn't nervous about the idea (I hate to see another person have to give away their GSP as I had to).
I know I've been giving you mixed responses, but in summary, if the GSP had a head-start on the Stars & Stripes it wouldn't be so risky. If the Stars & Stripes is already larger than the GSP, it will be risky without a divider, and could be cramped with one. Hopefully one of our mentors, Puffer_Queen, can drop by and give us her opinion; she has a lot of personal experience with marine puffers.
As a side note, when you go out to buy a tank for your Stars & Stripes, look for something with a lot of width (considering they can get 20" in length). Closer to or in excess of 200 gallons would be perfect, but a 180 may work depending on the dimensions. I know that's a year off, but I wanted to mention that before you got your heart set on a certain tank!
With a 2" head start on the slower growing GSP, I don't feel a 120 gallon tank is ideal for trying to keep the two together at this point. At least this rapid growth rate in the Arothron hispidus serves as a good example as to why it is so important to keep juvenile fish in tanks large enough to house adults; they grow fast when young!
Most of the compatibility problems I have read about people having with the Arothron hispidus are either sampling slower tankmates (such as eels) or due to accidental bites during feeding. It sounds like you really want to keep a larger tank and that the Arothron hispidus is going to be your choice in the end, so I guess it's up to whether or not you want to risk adding the GSP. I wish I could say I wasn't nervous about the idea (I hate to see another person have to give away their GSP as I had to).
I know I've been giving you mixed responses, but in summary, if the GSP had a head-start on the Stars & Stripes it wouldn't be so risky. If the Stars & Stripes is already larger than the GSP, it will be risky without a divider, and could be cramped with one. Hopefully one of our mentors, Puffer_Queen, can drop by and give us her opinion; she has a lot of personal experience with marine puffers.
As a side note, when you go out to buy a tank for your Stars & Stripes, look for something with a lot of width (considering they can get 20" in length). Closer to or in excess of 200 gallons would be perfect, but a 180 may work depending on the dimensions. I know that's a year off, but I wanted to mention that before you got your heart set on a certain tank!
-Michelle
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
Prevent unnecessary deaths due to disease- quarantine ALL new additions at least 4 weeks in a separate tank before adding to your main display tank!
Puffers: Hindenburg the Figure Eight, 75gallon Brackish
So, I have decided to find a new home for my GSP...very sad day. Ive had him for more than two years now and I love him but I also love my Stars and Stripes and can't keep both...
Another question I have and I think I do know the answer but....
Will my Stars and Stripes get lonely by himself? I know, I know, hes not a person but he just gets so happy to see me when I come home, like a puppy dog...I know its just cause Im food to him. What I was thinking was, that even though he will not become "friends" with other fish, are they not happier "around" other fish? Does this not stimulate them more than being on their own? Again, I know Im giving him human traits but I can't help but think hes bored.
Another question I have and I think I do know the answer but....
Will my Stars and Stripes get lonely by himself? I know, I know, hes not a person but he just gets so happy to see me when I come home, like a puppy dog...I know its just cause Im food to him. What I was thinking was, that even though he will not become "friends" with other fish, are they not happier "around" other fish? Does this not stimulate them more than being on their own? Again, I know Im giving him human traits but I can't help but think hes bored.
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bonnie3188
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:48 am
- Location: Australia
What about a Trigger to go with your Stars & Stripes puffer? I know that they can be housed with porcupine puffers, so Im assuming it should be alright with yours?
Triggers seem to have great personalities and colouration. Theres a good thread on reefcentral at the moment in the fish only/aggressive forum with pics of triggers.. they are amazing!
Just as a side note, I have Canthigaster sp. puffers in a community tank and I think they do become 'friends' with other species. My valentini puffer and Yellow tang seem to always be together, as do my Yellow tang and Sailfin tang. They are like unseperable.. its cute!
Triggers seem to have great personalities and colouration. Theres a good thread on reefcentral at the moment in the fish only/aggressive forum with pics of triggers.. they are amazing!
Just as a side note, I have Canthigaster sp. puffers in a community tank and I think they do become 'friends' with other species. My valentini puffer and Yellow tang seem to always be together, as do my Yellow tang and Sailfin tang. They are like unseperable.. its cute!
-Bonnie
So I ended up getting a 180G tank yesterday and it will be delivered in a week. I also found a new home for my GSP...It has been very hard to watch him swim around, knowing he will be gone in a few days. But he is going to a very good home and an experienced fish keeper. Sounds like he is going back to brackish conditions too. The guy said he will QT him for a month starting with full marine and lower it to 1.015. My GSP will now be a part of a 200G brackish community with Archers, Monos, ect. Hope he does well! My only condition was that there were no other puffers already.
So I guess things "worked" out in the end and my Stars and Stripes gets his own 180G. I am hoping to add a Porcupine puffer at some point but I would like to see if this tank will be big enough first.
So I guess things "worked" out in the end and my Stars and Stripes gets his own 180G. I am hoping to add a Porcupine puffer at some point but I would like to see if this tank will be big enough first.