GSP?

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Jmifland
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GSP?

Post by Jmifland » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:41 am

I am setting up a 40 gallon breeder tank that I am setting up. It will have a protein skimmer in a 20 gallon high sump as well as a refugium. I am trying to find a good puffer that would work well in this setup and wouldn't be too aggressive towards other fish. I have read a lot of success stories about keeping Figure 8 Puffers in a full marine aquarium but have heard that a Green Spotted Puffer would work much better. I plan to have the following stocklist:

2 x True Percula Clownfish
2 x Banggai Cardinal (Plans to breed)
1 x Fathead/Sunburst Anthias

I was thinking a Puffer would be a great addition especially with the Figure 8 Puffer because I have read that is only gets to about 3" in length while the Green Spotted Puffer gets 5-7". If there is a puffer that would work please let me know. I have always been interested in this fish but I don't like the thought of keeping a species specific aquarium.

jus85411
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Re: GSP?

Post by jus85411 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:16 pm

sorry to say, but with stocking two clownfish a) you are already at your maximum if not over stocking that tank, b) clownfish regardless of how they are portayed in "finding nemo" are very aggressive especially if they are a pair that is breeding. if you dont plan on breeding the clowns, it may really not be your choice. they will pick a specific area in the tank and protect it viciously. your other options are to go larger on the tank and you could try the combination listed, but like i mentioned with the clowns your running the risk of completely stressing out the puffer, he could get harassed and possibly lead to a stress related death. i dont know the behaviour of cardinals, especially when breeding but this is something to take into consideration as well. if they are more/less aggressive while breeding.

you could stick with the currect tank size and only stock with the puffer and maybe a smaller damsel or two, but again they are very aggressive fish and can be very mean. clownfish are in the same family with damsels i believe. i would suggest doing a bit more research on here or keep asking questions. F8 puffers not only stay smaller than GSP but they also require a low end brackish, not full marine like you intend on going. F8 in full marine is frowned upon, they can handle it short term, but long term it will harm the fish and kill it.

GSP also require a minimum of 30 gallons per puffer. this is a number not guessed, it was put together by scientists and other hobbyists. its a number that was come up with due to the size of the fish, eating habits, activity and the amount of waste that the puffer produces, which is a lot. i think if you were to keep a single GSP alone in the 40, it will be more rewarding down the line. keep in mind also that yes you have 40 gallons, but take away volume consumed by gravel/sand/whatever substrate + rock/other decor and your actually only looking at around a total of 30 gallons of actual water.

Jmifland
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Re: GSP?

Post by Jmifland » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:27 pm

7 Gallons per True Percula Clown is required for housing. I have two that are about the size of a nickel and they are currently living in a 6 gallon aquarium and are extremely happy. They also have a cleaner shrimp friend and a yellow clown goby. I don't plan on filling the entire tank with live rock. I will probably use about 25-30 gallons of live dry rock to fill the tank and about 1-2 inches of sand in the tank which should still give me about 36-40 gallons. A 40 breeder is roughly 48.5 gallons total. True Percula can be aggressive but are no where near as aggressive as a Maroon. If you introduce the other tank inhabitants why they are still young they will accept them and not harass them. I also know that the clowns fill probably breed but based on what I have research on the banggai cardinal I would be able to successfully breed them since they are mouth brooders and once they release the babies they are able to fend for themselves.

My main question is would a Figure 8 Puffer or Green Spotted Puffer mess with corals and or other fish. I'm not too worried about other fish picking on him since I have done my research and the only reason the puffer would be harassed would be if it initiated a confrontation between the other fish. Clowns will start to host once they become an adult and would leave the remainder of the tank free for everyone else to swim.

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sevenyearnight
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Re: GSP?

Post by sevenyearnight » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:34 pm

Not sure if you missed this in the above post, but Figure 8 puffers are low end brackish 1.003 - 1.005 SG, and actually they mostly live in alkaline freshwater in the wild. This fish is not genetically designed to live in full marine.
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jus85411
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Re: GSP?

Post by jus85411 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:41 pm

who told you about 7 gallons per clown? who ever did was horribly mistaken and probably mentioned the "inch of fish per gallon" rule.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod ... pcatid=142
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/marine/ ... ercula.php
http://www.fishlore.com/Profiles-ClownFish.htm
http://www.aquariumdomain.com/viewSpeci ... e.php?id=4

i mean i can keep going to every single link google gives me, but general consensus is 20-30 gallons per clown. no one here would recommend putting a F8 in a marine tank for any amount of time. so if i were you i would scratch that idea or you will have a very short lived F8. corals with GSP are really depending on what your puffer wants with him, same with fish. if the puffer doesnt like the fish, it will kill it or harass it. if he thinks a coral looks tasty then he will give it a try lol. people recommend trying "bad tasting" corals first to get them thinking about how bad they taste, but still not a guarantee that the puff wont mess with them.

your correct a SINGLE clown can be a lot less aggressive than a maroon, but add a second to make a "pair" then they will become destructive over time when they establish what is theirs, and they become worse if they pick a spot they want to breed in, regardless of whether they actually breed or not. the clowns will chase everything away from "their" area, no matter the size of the fish. they are ballsy little fish lol. if someone comes within the vicinity of their hosting spot, they become extremely territorial. i saw this first hand after my puff passed away. i had a single false perc, and if he hadnt been with the puff since the beginning im sure he would have chased him too. he chased everyone else away from "his" spot.

IMO, you have a recipe for disaster in that tank you wish to have. two entirely different species of fish which will possibly breed or try to. i wouldnt try that if i had a 6,000 gallon tank. there are reasons why our most seasoned fish expert on here preaches "species only tanks" and there are reasons why he keeps species tanks. true its not something that everyone can or will practice but he realized whats best for these fish a long time ago

Jmifland
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Re: GSP?

Post by Jmifland » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:42 pm

I heard seen videos on youtube and read articles about people successfully keeping Figure 8 Puffers in marine aquariums for 1-2 years until they passed.

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J-P
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Re: GSP?

Post by J-P » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:44 pm

if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q

jus85411
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Re: GSP?

Post by jus85411 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:45 pm

and GSP dont initiate anything, they attack if they want or feel like it. many people have had tankmates for years, only to have missing tankmates and a happily fat puffer a day later. puffers are the sharks of the aquarium, no one can predict what they will or wont do. sadly though most likely it will take something like this actually happening to you for you to actually believe what im saying

wagner7123
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Re: GSP?

Post by wagner7123 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:52 pm

If you had a dog that lived for 1 or 2 years, would you consider yourself a good dog owner?

I have a GSP and a Yellow tail Damsel in a 29 going into a 45 next month, then I will put the 29 down as the sump. the two seem to get along well for the most part and the puffer leaves my ricordea alone. The damsel on the other hand sees the rics as invaders and knocks them around the tank from time to time. I suggest if you want a puffer in your proposed setup, keep the other livestock to a minimum of maybe 2 other fish. a clown a gsp and a blenny might work but your results may vary.
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Jmifland
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Re: GSP?

Post by Jmifland » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:53 pm

I used to have a shark in my 300 gallon aquarium and the only things that would go missing were the large hermit crabs that we put into the tank for him to eat. Do they live 15 years in captivity or in the wild? The information on those two pages looks like something pulled off of a website which from what I have seen is usually incorrect. You should add some personal experience into those profiles.

wagner7123
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Re: GSP?

Post by wagner7123 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:57 pm

Why would you come here and ask for advice if you are just going to argue with everyone that gives it to you?
I'm pretty sure I have a blue thumb.

Jmifland
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Re: GSP?

Post by Jmifland » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:57 pm

Due to most species of fish being wild caught the lifespan is nothing compared to what they are in the wild. The only dog that is found in the wild now is a wolf. The rest have been bred over the years to be made specifically for captive care. I know that larger fish can be kept for a long period of time and some of the hardier fish can be kept for even longer but I don't know a ton about puffers. I don't know too many stories of puffers living past 4-5 years in captivity.

Jmifland
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Re: GSP?

Post by Jmifland » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:00 pm

I have heard a ton of things said by the people that work at my LFS that I know is incorrect. I argue to make sure that you can back up the information and isn't just information you were by someone that has no idea what he is talking about. I have found sources online that say that Figure 8 Puffers are brown in brackish water and as they mature move closer to marine waters. If I took a Figure 8 Puffer and over a couple month process moved it into a low salinity marine environment I don't see why it couldn't adapt successfully.

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suvattii2012
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Re: GSP?

Post by suvattii2012 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:01 pm

Jmifland wrote:I heard seen videos on youtube and read articles about people successfully keeping Figure 8 Puffers in marine aquariums for 1-2 years until they passed.
Thats shows you then what there telling you is correct.

Estimated Lifespan: 15 years
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wagner7123
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Re: GSP?

Post by wagner7123 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:01 pm

life span of a wolf in the wild is about 13 years, 16 if they are on an animal preserve. do you think a captive wolf would have a shorter life span?

sources

http://www.wolfcountry.net/information/ ... erved.html

http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/North ... aywolf.cfm
I'm pretty sure I have a blue thumb.

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