mbu questions

[BETTYBOO]

just curious

how long would a young 4 inch mbu last in a 53 gallon tank till it need to be upgraded??

and how long would it last in a 100 gallon tank??

whats size tank do they need when they are fully grown?? for just 1 mbu and no other fish?????

how long does it take till they get fully grown??

[scpion]

I have one which I really regretted buying.. dun mistaken, its by far my favourite but its really too large for a huge aquarium. I got it when its ard 5 inch. Took it just ard a year to reach 15in now.

So... do your maths.. usually its the tank width. Any one that have experience with one will tell u its NOT RECOMMENDED for home aquarium.

I am even considering rehoming it now..

[bertie 83]

It is recommended 1000g minimum for a single mbu, those who have kept them would likely say much bigger than that. These fish are not suited to hobbyist tanks.

[Pufferpunk]

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[RTR]

If you cannot put the fish in a minimum 1000 gallon tank Larger would be better) immediately, do not buy the fish.

If you cannot afford approximately the same volume again in water divided between filtration equipment and water holding and tempering equipment, do not buy the fish.

If you cannot spend several thousand dollars per year to support the fish, do not buy it.

FYI: an 8x14 foot fish room with heavily reinforced concrete pad below it, plus more power supplied than for the average apartment, is insufficient to support the fish IME.

In effect, it is like a yacht, if you have to ask the price or plan on moving in the next 15-20 years, do not buy the fish.

Personal (and painful) experience.

[E78704]

how long would a young 4 inch mbu last in a 53 gallon tank till it need to be upgraded?? and how long would it last in a 100 gallon tank??

That's a hard question to give a single answer to since the fish's growth rate will be affected by diet, water quality, etc. I raised ours to out 20" in a 4-foot tank but that was obviously less-then-ideal.

whats size tank do they need when they are fully grown?? for just 1 mbu and no other fish?????

Based on my experience, the bare minimum for an adult Mbu would be a tank of no less than 36" deep x 72" wide. Obviously, bigger is better but they can and will do well in a tank of the dimensions I just listed.

how long does it take till they get fully grown??

Mine started slowing down at about the 25" mark, and that was at about the 3 year point. I feed him every day, by the way.

...the same volume again in water divided between filtration equipment and water holding and tempering equipment, do not buy the fish.

That's not a requirement, in my experience. I've had ours on just canister filters and (recently) a relatively modest 50-gallon wet/dry sump for 3+ years and he is thriving. I have not found him to be different in regards to to filtration needs than any other fish I have ever kept.

If you cannot spend several thousand dollars per year to support the fish...

The single greatest expense I pay to keep our Mbu is the bulk buy of crawfish I do, each spring. Roughly, $200 for about 60-70 lbs. of crayfish. Otherwise, housing him costs no more than any other fish tank of equivalent size. In fact, he is actually cheaper to keep than a reef tank or live plant tank because there are no special lighting or additive requirements.

..FYI: an 8x14 foot fish room with heavily reinforced concrete pad below it, plus more power supplied than for the average apartment, is insufficient to support the fish IME.

Please see my earlier comments regarding net cost to house one of these guys. Yes, you could spend a fortune if you want to but you don't need to. My current Mbu tank, in fact, uses less substantially less power than most reef tanks half its size. I would be glad to discuss the setup in detail if you are interested.

[bertie 83]

Rtr is a scientist who has done years of research with puffers. His recommendations are for suitable housing to keep water parameters in check and keep the fish happy. If he could not provide suitable housing he would not keep another. Fish that grow to 30" plus in length and produce as much bio load as a mbu should not be kept in anything less than a small swimming pool. Fact

[E78704]

Rtr is a scientist who has done years of research with puffers. His recommendations are for suitable housing to keep water parameters in check and keep the fish happy. If he could not provide suitable housing he would not keep another. Fish that grow to 30" plus in length and produce as much bio load as a mbu should not be kept in anything less than a small swimming pool. Fact

I'm not questioning anyone's credentials or trying to start an argument but if we are talking about facts, these are mine...

-30" Mbu (mine is actually 27", but the three extra won't matter here...) will do great in a tank of the dimensions I mentioned.
-They do not produce any more bio-load than any other fish equivalent in size. At least none that I have ever kept. If someone is having a filtration issue with their Mbu tank, it is probably because they do not have enough filtration, period, rather than "because it's an Mbu".

And these are facts, not my opinion. I am not criticizing anyone or here to change anyone's mind about what they think/don't think about keeping one of these guys but I can tell you that you definitely do not need any special filtration, nor a 1,000-gallon tank, to succesfully keep an Mbu.

[puffykid]

Thank you for your input.

[E78704]

You know, I was just thinking back on the various tank setups we have kept our Mbu in. I've lost fish in there to conspecific aggression, had fish die for "whatever reason", and also lost fish to power outages, but the Mbu has always hung in there. There was one instance where we went to the mother-in-law's for Xmas and the tank heaters (125-gallon at the time) somehow both failed simultaneously. From the best I can tell, the tank was room temp (we turn the heat way down in the house when we leave town...), or about 55F, for up to four days. We walked in the door and there was our Mbu, lying UPSIDE-DOWN, MOTIONLESS, on the bottom of the tank. My wife, of course, hit the ceiling (family heirarchy goes: "wife-dog-fish-husband") but I looked at him and saw that he was alive but that the tank was freezing. Immediately broke out the Python, drained half of the tank, then refilled it with warm water, got it back up to temp. Believe it or not, he was up and swiming like normal within a few hours.

Anyway, I will be the first to say that Mbu are not for everyone but if you know what you are getting into, they can be great pets and in fact, are actually one of the hardier fish I have kept.

[bertie 83]

That is incredible that he survived that, he must be a fighter. I am not aware of any other fish with the same mass as a mbu.

[RTR]

I will only comment that a fish reported to be 30" kept in a 36 x 72" tank will have poor muscle tone and likely abnormal configuration due to lack of anything like a normal swimming space, and that water quality would be suspicious at best. I do not keep fish that way, not even guppies. It is possible to keep big working dogs in crates for life, but I consider both situations to be examples of animal cruelty. Not in my fish tanks, not ever.

Very few home water heaters are capable of producing hundreds of gallons of make-up water temper to the correct temperature. I know most large-scale hobbyists direct tap water straight to their tanks, but I do not do that either. I have no proof of why my fish live so much longer than most hobbyist's do, and are full-sized and normal configuration as adults, but I do know that they do both.

I do not and will not undersize tanks. I do not keep "community" tanks. I do not feed improperly. I do change water to hold water quality high. I do over-filter and keep filters up well. Proper feeding without over-feeding is non-trivial, as are freedom from stress and a suitable environment. Some day I hope more folks will learn that fish need not be particularly short-lived in captivity when managed properly.

FWIW

[E78704]

I will only comment that a fish reported to be 30" kept in a 36 x 72" tank will have poor muscle tone and likely abnormal configuration due to lack of anything like a normal swimming space..

Does this fish appear to have poor muscle tone and abnormal configuration to you?...

...water quality would be suspicious at best...

No, not really. As I mentioned earlier, Mbu do not (in my experience) produce arbitrarily more waste than any other fish their size. Certainly less than a large plecostomus or koi carp. In the past, I have tested NO3 levels as high as 100/ppm in the tank. This, of course, is harmless to the fish but as you know, does grow algae. I am a big advocate of "plant-style filtration" and as you can see in the photos, grow Pothos and Spathiphyllum hydroponically in the rear of the tank. With this new tank (4 months old, now...), I basically cannot read any N03 in my tests. The Pothos is pulling it out of the water that fast. Of course, I still change the water like you would on any fish tank but in reply to that assertion, no, water quality is not suspicious.

...It is possible to keep big working dogs in crates for life, but I consider both situations to be examples of animal cruelty....

With all due respect, that is not an accurate analogy because it assumes that a fish have emotional requirements, like a dog. And nobody knows that, certainly not you or me. Fish are a simple creatures and as long as their environmental and dietary needs are met, they will thrive. If that were not true, commercial aquaculture, for example, would not work. Fish farms can produce some of the healthiest fish there are, at population densities thousands of times higher than what would occur in nature. When I walk in the door, my dog gets excited because he is happy to see me. The Mbu gets excited, too, but it has nothing to do with being happy to see me. It's because he just wants to be fed.

What I am trying to say is that it is bad practice to represent anthropomorphic feelings about out wet pets as basis for fact.

..Very few home water heaters are capable of producing hundreds of gallons of make-up water temper to the correct temperature....

That fact could be correct but again, "hundreds of gallons of (pre-heated) make-up water" are not needed to keep an Mbu. I use off-the-shelf Ebo-Jager heaters to heat the tank with and then just tap water, via the Python, for water changes. Nothing special, just like 90% of other fish tanks.

I do not and will not undersize tanks. I do not keep "community" tanks. I do not feed improperly. I do change water to hold water quality high. I do over-filter and keep filters up well. Proper feeding without over-feeding is non-trivial, as are freedom from stress and a suitable environment. Some day I hope more folks will learn that fish need not be particularly short-lived in captivity when managed properly...

No disagreement with any of that in principle, except to ask the following questions: What standard is it that defines whether or not a tank is "under-sized" for a given species? I would sure like to read that, if it exists. And, if there is no such standard that can be referenced, how is it that a given environment can be deemed "free from stress" or "suitable"?

[bertie 83]

Nitrates are only 1 pollutant, it's what we can use as a guide to waterr quality as hobby test kits are not advanced enough to test for all pollutants. If you are removing nitrate how do you know the quality of your water? 100 ppm n03 is certainly not fish safe, this would be scary results to see

[E78704]

Nitrates are only 1 pollutant, it's what we can use as a guide to waterr quality as hobby test kits are not advanced enough to test for all pollutants. If you are removing nitrate how do you know the quality of your water? 100 ppm n03 is certainly not fish safe, this would be scary results to see

You are correct, there are many pollutants in aquarium water but nitrate is essentially harmless to fish. Well, maybe 1 ppt or 1 pph (LOL) would be an issue... Like I said earlier, I don't treat the Mbu tank any differently than any other fish tank and the bottom line, in my experience, is that you either know how to keep fish or you don't and this tank is a LOT less work than previous reef or planted tanks I have owned.

Honestly, I just watch the fish. That will tell you if there is an issue in the tank. If there's an issue with water quality, they will show it right away.