f8 tank size

[Gomez]

I would go back to the lfs asap and get some of their established filter media water whatever and the cycle time will be greatly reduced. also feed as little as possible for the first bit because the tank is not yet established enough to take care of a larger sized bio load.

[Peregrine]

Is it going to be ok to do the following... 1. cycle 10 gallon, 2. raise salinity to 1.001. 3. put puffer in 10 gallon. 4. raise salinity .001 each week to 1.005, then move the puffer to a 20 long in 4 months.

thanks

That plan is a workable one...although your going to need to bring the 20 long up to the same SG slowly (1.002/week) (or transfer all your media, gravel ect) ...you see why changing tanks can be a hassle...I wouldn't bring the fish up to brackish(n the 10)...then back down to FW (in the 20), and then back up to brackish(in the 20)....but that's a ways off yet.

When you say you already have "the fish" in the tank cycling it...do you mean the f8? (I thought you hadn't got it yet)...whats in there?

...when the cycle is complete..and assuming you don't bring up the SG now...If the cycle was done as FW...I would leave it FW for a couple of weeks after the cycle is complete..before starting to raise the SG...just to ensure the bacteria is established and plentiful, before you start altering their world. You can still add the F8 to FW (assuming it is in FW at the lfs)...There is no real reason to rush through the raising of the SG
(If you cycle the tank at 1.005..then you just have to drip acclimate your fish over a few hours.)

As to how long until they hit 3"...if you get one about 1"-1.5"...within in 4-5 months it should be close to 2"...and within a year from time of purchase it should hit the 2.5"-3" (this may be conservative)

[puffer2007]

right now i have 4 white cloud minnows cycling the tank. but how can i cycle a brackish water tank?

[Peregrine]

How can you cycle a brackish tank now...or from scratch??

From scratch...just start the cycling process at the correct SG (1.005) and then fishless cycle with ammonia or cocktail shrimp...Beneficial bacteria will grow at any SG...as long as the level remains constant..or changes very little.

If you had access to bio-spira...same thing...just faster (assuming you dont get a dead bottle). And fish can be added immediately (I think FW bio-spira will work up to 1.010-1.012(not sure), and their is SW biospira for anything higher...I have never used so dont quote me on these #'s)

From where you are now...??? how long have you been cycling the tank with minnows..what stage of the cycle are you at?


You could add a little salt (1.001) which should not hurt the fish (short term)...if anything it would help them process O2 more efficiently and increase their survivability. But I would not cycle with fish, starting at 1.005 brackish, especially if it is not the fishes natural SG...they are being stressed enough already...I generally dont use live fish to cycle...personal preference

If you just started...week or two in...you wont be losing much...pull the fish out...read the fishless cycling article...and go that way...

Steep learning curve huh

If your continuing with the minnow..do just that..finish the cycle FW (a little salt wouldnt hurt <1.001-1-2tbsp/5gal)...you can also do as Gomez says..it will speed things along. Acclimate your puffer to his new home (still drip acclimate over a couple hours. Let it get used to its new home for a week or 2, then raise the SG as you planned

[puffer2007]

well i am only a week in so i guess i will just take the minnows out and raise the sg to 1.005 and fishless cycle. now, withthe fishless cycling do i just add ammonia and bacteria will appear or do i have to add bacteria from somthing else then add ammonia. but if i add and item that is seeded from a freshwater to a brackish tank then wont all the bacteria on the item die once entered into a salt enviroment?

thanks

[Peregrine]

If you fishless cycle with ammonia...nothing else...the tank will cycle...it just takes a little longer. With added seeded media/plants/gravel...ect from an established tank...it can be done in as little as 10 days...
Without seeding...maybe around 4 weeks (maybe a little more). The bacteria is everywhere and will find its way into your tank...and once it hits the ammonia rich food source it will take off.

It would be quicker if you could seed it...but I think that the material you seed it with would have to come from a brackish tank of similar parameters.

You could seed it with FW squeezings...it will not be as useful as they would be in a FW tank...but some (of the countless millions) are bound to survive...

Just ensure you understand the procedure...and get good..clear..ammonia...free of detergents, and sufficants (sp)...It need not be pure 100% industrial grade ammonia. Cheap off the shelf ammonia (usually approx 10% solution) will work...just takes a little more to get your levels up. Do "the shake test", if it foams..and the bubbles remain for more than a second or two...dont use it.
If you need a walk through just ask..many here have done it...
Here this will save you some time if you have not found, and read it already
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/lib ... s-cycling/

[puffer2007]

ok i see now, i think here is what i ll do.
day one. remove white clouds, add 5ppm of ammonia, add 1.001 sg,
day two. maintian 5 ppm of ammonia until nitrite appears.
... day seven. raise sg to 1.002
... day fourteen raise sg to 1.003
... day twenty one raise sg to 1.005

or, leave the white clouds in for 3 more weeks. then take the white clouds out and add 1.001 sg the same day i get the puffer, then every week raise the sg. the only problem is the white clouds dont produce as much ammonia as the puffer, and the added salt will take down some of the bacteria as well.

which one do you think is better

[Nick]

if yoiu remove the white clouds right away, you could increase the SG before adding any ammonia, and slightly speed it all along.

[Phaedrus]

Agreed. Take out the white clouds, bump the SG to 1.001 or 1.002 and use ammonia from there on in, raising the SG every week. It may take some patience, but it'll be worth it to have a perfect tank to introduce your puffers to.

[puffer2007]

ok, then thats what i ll do. you guys have really helped,

thanks

[Peregrine]

When you cycle with ammonia rather than fish...the tank is generally able to take a heavier initial bio-load than a tank cycled with fish...and the ammonia levels are easier to maintain than they are with cocktail shrimp.

Looks like you have a plan...and a good base to start from.

[puffer2007]

ok, my dad says i cant use ammonia, for some reason. so i guess i am back to square one. i will just have to let the white clouds cycle the tank and hope i dont go throught a mini cycle when i get the puffer.

wish me luck, any other suggestions please feel free to share.

thanks

[Phaedrus]

Can't use ammonia?

Any 2$ bottle of cheap household ammonia will do so long as it doesn't have any fragrance added. It only takes a couple drops.

[puffer2007]

he says "people" use ammonia in bombs and drugs, i told him i wanted it for fish, but he doesnt get it, so...

thanks

[Boxermom]

Can you get some shrimp? Like people shrimp from the grocery store? All you need is one or two pieces. Can't make a bomb out of those as far as I know. And works great for fishless cycling.