New Figure 8 setup

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MilesE
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New Figure 8 setup

Post by MilesE »

Hello all, I am not new to the aquarium hobby but, I am new to figure 8 puffers. A few years ago, I had a couple saltwater aquariums. I'll try to make a long story short as more detail about my situation is in the Greet forum. I quickly setup an 8 gallon aquarium 2 weeks ago to try and rescue a couple figure 8 puffers that my wife bought from a vendor thinking they were another type of fish that "looked interesting". Due to communication issues (we're in Taiwan but not yet fluent in Mandarin/Chinese) she did not realize what she was getting and could not return them once she brought them home.

I quickly bought the small aquarium and supplies as a starter until I could figure out where the good aquarium stores were located. I bought some "photo synthetic bacteria" to try and instantly cycle the tank. I know this is not the best way to cycle a tank but, I again, I was trying to get something up and running quickly as the fish were already in poor condition (tattered fins and I think at least one had a parasite).

I was able to find a couple really good aquarium supply stores so, I was able to get some equipment. But, sad to say, the fish did not make it. I may be wrong, but, I don't think it was due to "new tank syndrome" as I did frequent water changes and the test kits (ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates) were always at zero. The tank currently is empty except some cherry shrimp (bought for the puffers to eat), some substrate, rock decor, hang on the back filter, light, and some Vallisneria.

I added some more of the "photo synthetic bacteria" to the tank after another 50% water change a couple days ago and now I seem to have an outbreak of tiny snails and other "bugs". I am now in the process of getting a larger, 30 gallon tank setup as I want to try again to have a Figure 8 along with some bumblebee gobies. The 30 gallon has a built-in sump/filter in the back of the aquarium, like an aquanano 40.

My questions are, do you think the 8 gallon tank is cycled? If and when it is, could I "instantly cycle" the 30 gallon with the filter media from the 8 gallon? Since 30 and the 8 gallon will have different types of filtering methods (the 8 has a hang on the back filter), I don't know if that is possible. I will also be using different substrate in the 30 gallon (sand) than the 8 gallon (gravel).

Overall, I know the best policy is patience

Thanks,
Miles
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Pufferpunk
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Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by Pufferpunk »

I do not believe your tank is cycled, unless you are showing nitrate? Very few products actually contain LIVE nitrifying bacteria.
Here's your best option: library/water-filtration/fishlessconsiderations/
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
MilesE
Puffer Fry
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:50 am
My Puffers: Figure 8 (Pac Man)

Non puffers:
3 Bumblebee Gobies (Minions)
Location (country): Taiwan

Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by MilesE »

Thanks Pufferpunk for the reply. I agree with you, I don't think it is cycled yet. My plan is to let the 8 gallon complete the cycle process while getting the 30 gallon up and running. I'm not sure what I will do with the 8 gallon once the 30g is done. Maybe I'll keep it as a breeding tank for snails and shrimp. I'm looking forward to eventually housing a Figure 8 and some Bumblebee gobies.

Anyway, while I don't like how I got back into the aquarium hobby, I am happy to be back. I'm enjoying this forum

Miles
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Pufferpunk
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
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Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by Pufferpunk »

8g would be perfect for a dwarf puffer or 2!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
MilesE
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Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:50 am
My Puffers: Figure 8 (Pac Man)

Non puffers:
3 Bumblebee Gobies (Minions)
Location (country): Taiwan

Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by MilesE »

Pufferpunk wrote: Tue May 16, 2017 9:01 am 8g would be perfect for a dwarf puffer or 2!
I hadn't thought of that. Hmm...

I'm looking at getting a 30g tank with an internal filter in the back (like an aqua one tank). Do you think this would be adequate filtration for a Figure 8 along with maybe 5 bumblebee gobies? Or, should I look at adding more filtration - like a canister filter?

For substrate, when I did a google translate on the bags, one said "American silica sand" and the other "Coral sand". I asked about aragonite sand but, the LFS employee said they didn't have that (I'm not sure if he didn't understand me). Which would you recommend?

When I told the LFS employee that I wanted to keep some plants as well, he recommended a type of substrate that was good for plants. It was black in color. I couldn't get a good translation on the packaging of the bag. Is this type of substrate good for a F8 puffer tank?

Thanks for the help!
Miles
ZiggyAnderson
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Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by ZiggyAnderson »

Miles, I am by no means an expert, but I've kept 2 F8s alive and growing with no signs of stress for 8 months now. They are in a 36 gallon with 4 bumblebee gobies. All tank mates are happy and the growth and coloration I've seen improve in both species since purchase (and acclimation to 1.004 sg brackish water) has really been surprising. All that to say, it is all very possible.
A 30g for 1 F8 and 5 gobies would be great. I don't think that you want silica sand. Diatoms use nitrates and silica from your tank to cover it (in surprisingly short time) with a gross brown blanket. I think that ground coral is a good ph buffer but the usually large size of this type of substrate is what makes people shy away from it because it can be unsightly when it collects a bunch of detritus matter, which I believe can become its own nitrate problem down the line. So I do think you want to try to get some argonite sand from somewhere. If not, or if the coral is small enough, you can go with coral, just expect to need to not just vacuum it, but to stir it vigorously ( moreso than sand) to clean it.
As for the planting soil, are you wanting a planted tank? If so, do your research on brackish plants (which will reveal that there arguably aren't any except mangroves commercially available) and the lighting they require. I gave up on trying to keep all but mangroves in my tank because I simply couldn't keep them alive (java ferns). So, I do not think the soil (because usually it is soil) will harm your water, but I'd be interested in what it does to your ph, which many say is more important for F8s than the sg of the brackish water. In other words, I don't know about the soil, but I know that if you are trying to get a blooming aquascaped brackish aquarium, you have an uphill climp. I've heard many say they grow brackish plants, but when they reveal their sg and ph, they are very very low end brackish, not up to the 1.004 to1.008 that F8s require. So the soil may be out of the question anyway.
Hope this helps, good luck, and you have come to the right place, these guys and gals helped me out a ton just a few months ago.
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Pufferpunk
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My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
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Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by Pufferpunk »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good stuff there!
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14694
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
MilesE
Puffer Fry
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:50 am
My Puffers: Figure 8 (Pac Man)

Non puffers:
3 Bumblebee Gobies (Minions)
Location (country): Taiwan

Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by MilesE »

ZiggyAnderson, good information, thanks! Yeah, I've done a lot more research into brackish water plants and soil. I'm not going to try a full blown planted tank and I'm not going to try soil either. But, I am going to try some plants where people have reported decent success: Vallisneria, Java Moss (going to try a bonsai-type aquarium tree), and maybe a water sprite (big maybe). I'm going to try the new Kessil A80 (freshwater version) light. The LFS has it on order.

Tank update: I was able to get what I believe is aragonite sand. I say "believe" because my grasp of the Chinese language is not fluent yet and so from what I could discern from the LFS, I have aragonite sand. I initially put way too much sand in - about 3-4" depth. I removed the excess sand to get it down to 1". I'm happy because it does not seem like it restarted the cycle (I'm a week into the cycle). I finished my first attempt at aquascaping and while I'm not satisfied with the rock work, I am happy with the "bonsai" trees I started.

I bought 3 bumblebee gobies last Friday and placed them in my 8 gallon, cherry shrimp/snail tank. They are doing well and have put a big dent in my cherry shrimp population. That's ok because their purpose was to be feeder shrimp for my gobies and future F8. They are also responding well to frozen bloodworms.

Here's another issue I'm trying to resolve. The only tank I have to QT my future F8 in is the 8 gallon cherry shrimp/snail tank. Should I be worried that the F8 will just gorge himself if I put him in there? I could try to transfer all of the shrimp to the 30 gallon tank once it's done cycling but, I'll be faced with the same issue when the F8 is ready to go into it. Besides, trying to get all of the baby shrimp and tiny snails will be a pain.

Should I be worried about the F8 stuffing himself too much?
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Pufferpunk
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
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My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
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Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by Pufferpunk »

He will quickly eat all of them.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
MilesE
Puffer Fry
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:50 am
My Puffers: Figure 8 (Pac Man)

Non puffers:
3 Bumblebee Gobies (Minions)
Location (country): Taiwan

Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by MilesE »

Pufferpunk wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 10:30 am He will quickly eat all of them.
I bought him on Friday and put him in the quarantine tank. You were right, he quickly ate all of the small snails. At first he couldn't catch the cherry shrimps but, after a few trial and errors, he figured it out and went to town on them as well. He's left the larger adult shrimps alone though.

On Saturday, I purchased a small desktop tank for snail and shrimp breeding. I bought some ramshorn snails and relocated as many remaining cherry shrimp there. I tried to feed him a couple ramshorn snail on Saturday and he pecked at one but then left them alone. I think they're too big for him. I'll have to try and find some smaller ones. So, I fed him some thawed bloodworms soaked in vitamins and he readily ate them up.

I'm frustrated because I've been unable to locate any medications here in Taiwan, like Metroplex or Melafix. I'm concerned about internal parasites - not that he's shown any signs but, I want to take preventative action. I had those medicines on order but, for some reason they've been delayed. Not sure if it's a customs or weather issue. So, I tried the "pumpkin seed" method today. Hopefully it works. I created another post in the Hospital forum regarding that treatment.

Anyway, I just wanted to give an update.
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32764
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by Pufferpunk »

Does Amazon or Ebay ship to you?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
MilesE
Puffer Fry
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:50 am
My Puffers: Figure 8 (Pac Man)

Non puffers:
3 Bumblebee Gobies (Minions)
Location (country): Taiwan

Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by MilesE »

Pufferpunk wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:40 pm Does Amazon or Ebay ship to you?
It depends on the item and seller. I cannot get Metroplex shipped to me from Amazon. I haven't tried EBay for that item.
Bleedingheartmommy
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Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by Bleedingheartmommy »

Can you get pancur-c? It's a dog dewormer with the active ingredient fenbendazole, there is a great IP article here on the site that explains how to use it. I love it bc it's powder so it's easy to cover/soak the food in! The active ingredient is what's important, not the brand name. I follow the directions given In the article below and have had great results using this med! The article also lists other options for medicine used.

library/hospital/internal-parasites-pre ... treatment/

Also, this med does not seem to give a smell or have a taste. I use it with frozen bloodworms, thawed in the powder. Rinsed, then resoaked in tank water and meds before feeding! Best of luck!
"Genetics loads the gun, and environment pulls the trigger."-Brené Brown
MilesE
Puffer Fry
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:50 am
My Puffers: Figure 8 (Pac Man)

Non puffers:
3 Bumblebee Gobies (Minions)
Location (country): Taiwan

Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by MilesE »

Thanks bleedinghearmommy for the reply. That is such a good article, it's what I used to do the pumpkin seed method. Thanks for the suggestion regarding pancur-c, I'll check some vets and see if they have it.

I appreciate the help!
MilesE
Puffer Fry
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 7:50 am
My Puffers: Figure 8 (Pac Man)

Non puffers:
3 Bumblebee Gobies (Minions)
Location (country): Taiwan

Re: New Figure 8 setup

Post by MilesE »

New issue: I've been trying to feed him ramshorn snails but, he doesn't eat them. He pecked at the first one but left it alone and now will not even bother them. I even tried to offer him crushed ones as I thought they may have been too big for him but, he again, pecked at it a little then left it alone. I found some very small (tiny is more like it) pond snail and he ate those. This frustrates me a little because I setup a snail breeding tank for him with plenty of ramshorn snails.

Is this normal? He is pretty small, at only about 1" - 1.25" in length. So, maybe when he gets larger, he will eat them?
Here's a couple pics of my puffer, how does he look? Does it look like he has a parasite?

Him with a full belly:
F8Full.JPG
The next day, hungry:
F8Hungry.JPG
His poo:
F8Poo.JPG
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