Nessler test kits, ammonia toxicity and fishless cycling.

[GekkoGeck0]

I am setting up a 10g tank for dwarf puffers and am having a bit of a difficult time wrapping my head around this water chemistry business.

I am following Dr. Chris Cow's fishless cycling article over at http://www.cichlid-forum.com. His guide says to add ammonia (household grade) until the concentration is approximately 5ppm.

So here's my problem. I am using a Tetra/Nutrafin ammonia test kit that uses the Nessler reagent. I added enough ammonia to reach 5ppm on the test kit's scale, but is that correct? Can the filter utilize NH3 and NH4+? Or should I recalculate for NH3 only?

Another concern I have is that I am currently using Seachem Prime as a dechlorinator. I purchased it in preparation for my city's water system's change over to chloramine sometime in early 2006. Since from my understanding that Prime converts NH3 into NH4+, am I going to end up screwing over my cycle each time I do a water change that's been dechlorinated with Prime?

[K4tsujink3n]

From my understanding, Prime does not affect the cycling process. It detoxifies ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte - this means it should still be availble to the biological filter for consumption.

HTH

[RTR]

But you still will not be able to read with any accuracy at all by the Nessler's kit. Replace the kit with a salicylate kit.

[K4tsujink3n]

Right, what RTR said - sorry, I didn't make that point.
If I'm not mistaken, the SeaChem kits will work for you ... RTR, can you confirm?

[RTR]

Any test that is salicylate-based will work. I don't use Seachem's nitrogen tests, so cannot say, but I'll bet their site specifies - they are the best company in the hobby for providing full info. I doubt seroiusly that they would market a test which would not read when one of their own products is used.

It is high time that Nessler's reagent tests disappear from the hobby - they cause a lot more trouble than they are worth.

[GekkoGeck0]

Any test that is salicylate-based will work. I don't use Seachem's nitrogen tests, so cannot say, but I'll bet their site specifies - they are the best company in the hobby for providing full info. I doubt seroiusly that they would market a test which would not read when one of their own products is used.

It is high time that Nessler's reagent tests disappear from the hobby - they cause a lot more trouble than they are worth.

Indeed, you are correct, although they say that they are using a different method besides Nessler's or the salicylate tests.

Quite the hefty price on that test. http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/prod ... ry_id=3095

I hesitate to leap out and buy this right at this moment, especially considering my test kits are all brand spanking new. Is it essential that I leave behind the bothersome Nessler's test kit and go with a salicylate test, or the Seachem one?

I do intend to replace it, but I drained a good amount of my funds getting everything ready for this tank, I will have to wait a couple more weeks before I can purchase a new kit.

Regardless, am I on the right track with the fishless cycling? Does the biological filter utilize NH3 and NH4+?

[Pamela]

Actually, I've wondered that...about the NH3 and NH4+. Are they constantly fluctuating between one and the other, with only one form available for the bugs?
Or am I not quite on the ball?
Pami.

[K4tsujink3n]

I'm pretty sure both are available for consumption, but let's hear what the scientist has to offer.

[RTR]

Only the ionic form is taken up (NH4+, ammonium ion) by plants. BUT, remember that it is an equilibrium - if at your pH/temp you are 25% NH3 and 75% NH4+, the plants take up some NH4+ thus reducing its concentration momentarily, some of the NH3 ionizes immediately to maintain the proportions. Net result is lower total ammonia nitrogen, not a change in the equilibrium between the two forms.

I specified "plants" because I do not know for certain whether or not the nitrification bugs can take in the dissolved non-inonized ammonia. Bacteria do not all use the same uptake processes as multicellular life forms, but NH3 is pretty rough stuff for protoplasm to handle - NH4+ is much easier. Either way, the net effect works out the same as per the first paragraph discussion.

Make sense? HTH

The Seachem test kit is not required. The situation is just that Nessler's reagent will not work, so salicylate or Seachem's chemistry, either will do.

[K4tsujink3n]

Just to add my opinion, I've found that the SeaChem nitrIte and nitrAte tests are a bit more sensitive (and therefore, detect traces quite well). However, their scale is a bit hard to read - instead of there being different colors like most tests, SeaChem's uses a monochromatic purple-ish scale. I haven't really appreciated the ammonia test media, either - they are tiny reusable disks that are supposed to change from yellow to green in the presence of ammonia, but they're difficult to take readings from and often make me constantly question whether the media is still good or not.

Again, just my opinion. Hope it helps.

[GekkoGeck0]

Thanks everyone, for your helpful replies. I'll be dumping the Nessler and buying a salicylate-based one soon. The Seachem ones seem a tad problematic and since the salicylate ones are supposed to work just as well, I'll stick with them.

Thanks again!