Adding juvenile DP to tank with male DP

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Vengified
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Adding juvenile DP to tank with male DP

Post by Vengified »

As the title states, I am curious about adding some more Pea Puffers to my existing tank, and am curious about the gender "choosing" process and want clarification on some conflicting information I seem to be finding.

I currently have 3 Dwarf Puffers in my tank, all added at the same time, one is male, two are female, they were bought as juveniles, indistinguishable genders, then the male showed/chose his wrinkles, and the other 2 remained female. However, due to an unfortunate squishing accident (long story, rock cave collapsed, has been fixed now) I lost one of the females.
*My question is: Will adding a few more juveniles cause an imbalance in the M:F ratio? I have read that once a male is in the tank, that any others added, will be female, due to the hormones excreted by the male, however most information doesnt clarify this specifically, and I thought of no better place than the Puffer Forums, to find out for sure?

In case anyone is curious, it is a 20g high tank, well established, over a year now, running a Penn Plax Cascade 1500 (severely over filtered). Started it with guppies and RCS shrimp and a gourami. Still have 2 guppies, a few thousand shrimp, and the gourami. The puffers never seemed to care about the other fish, nor the adult shrimp, though I'm sure they eat the babies, but the adult RCS have the added benefit of cleaning out any leftover meat in any of the Pond snail or MTS shells that the puffers leave behind. I would consider it fairly heavily planted, several Amazon Swords, Java Fern, Java Moss, Amazon Frogbit (floater), with sand substrate, a few Malaysian driftwood (I think its malaysian?), and a giant piece of Cholla wood. Of course I do weekly water changes, without failure, every Saturday. I test the water every 2 or 3 weeks, whether there is a problem or not, and for nearly a year, I have been 0 Ammonia/0 Nitrite/5-15 Nitrate with pH 7.8, temp stays 81°F

If I have forgotten any information you need, please let me know, and thanks in advance! :D
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Adding juvenile DP to tank with male DP

Post by Pufferpunk »

[welcome]
Since the recommended stocking is 5g/DP, I'm not sure you should be adding so 3 more to your 20g. Although, some recommend 5g for the 1st one & 3g for the ones over that, which would be 6 total. It may be a problem adding juvies to adults who have already established their territories though. Try removing the adults & redecorating. Then add the new guys & give them a chance to find territories, before adding the older guys back. Also, it's sheer luck getting the correct m-f ratio, when picking out juvies. You got lucky!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Vengified
Puffer Fry
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Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:03 pm
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Re: Adding juvenile DP to tank with male DP

Post by Vengified »

I HAD 3, but lost one due to a cave collapse (which has since been rectified) and the one lost was female. I now have one male and one female, and they get along wonderfully between them and the other fish. I am probably going to be moving the others to my other tank, because I want the puffers to breed.

Hence why I asked if I add juveniles to a tank with a male already, will those near juveniles be forced female, as there is already a male? I'm not sure if it is indeed true, but I have read in multiple locations that the male excretes a hormone, preventing others from turning male, as he matures, but I am Unsure if he continues to excrete this same hormone after he has fully matured? I would probably only add 2 more puffers to my existing 2, as I have 5 good hiding holes, and the male alternates between two of them. I am meticulous in my maintenance, and as previously stated, am way overfiltering the tank on purpose.

So really, I just wanna know if the male continues to prevent any other juveniles from maturing into males or not?

And @Pufferpunk thank you for the tip on moving the adults, and redecorating! I guess I am lucky with the ones I picked. =)
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32773
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Adding juvenile DP to tank with male DP

Post by Pufferpunk »

Puffers do not alter their sex.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Vengified
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Location (country): Montana, USA

Re: Adding juvenile DP to tank with male DP

Post by Vengified »

Pufferpunk wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:27 am Puffers do not alter their sex.
I know not everything on the internet is true, which is why I THOROUGHLY research dozens of pages/sites, about the same subject, before coming to a conclusion, but some very reputable sites need to correct their information! Heck, even other forums have people specifically stating male puffers secrete gender bending hormones!

Thank you for your help though Pufferpunk! I think I better just hold off then, as I would hate to end up with 2 males, and have daily brawls until one of them won.

Besides, I have been EXTREMELY lucky from what info I can find about their aggression, being how they havent harmed any guppies, gourami, or each other. I dont even see them attack adult RCS, in fact I've seen them swim right past them, to search for snails, and seen RCS swim directly into their faces, and they just ignore it.

The honey gouramis I used to have though, OMG, the male was literally a monster, killing females, an oto, countless shrimp, anything he saw...
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