Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

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StinkyPete
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by StinkyPete »

gkai wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:09 am still as thin, or bulking up a little bit? Maybe with a lot of live snails they will be able to feed regularly when they want, even during the night...
We have to get meds.
They show signs of trying to live, which is pecking at food.
I do believe some of the forum is correct...we may have IP lurking in their gut.

Yes, we do the snails, but have ran out of medium sized ones and are looking to set up another tank for just snails as a source of food.
They love snails.
I even tossed my majority of assasin snails in too.
StinkyPete
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by StinkyPete »

Pufferpunk wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:56 am You ABSOLUTELY have permission to post their name! It is very possible they changed hands since the person who recommended this place to you bought their fish. I was very pleased with a place I had spent thousands at for years. Then, they started sending me emaciated, diseased fish. Caused me to loose almost my entire collection of fish. Turns out the owner & his GF had a fight. The GF left. She was in charge of the shipping process, especially picking out fish.

aquaticclarity

A member here (forum) recommended the store and said "tell him Mike and Amy Downey sent you to Jeff".
lol, maybe this was not a good Idea!

He still sounds legitimate, he just really lacked the TLC boasted in his websites "why buy from us" topic.

Ask yourselves, how much do 5 of these puffers shipped cost? You would think the store would take some more time looking at the fish and not sending ones that looked iffy.
After receiving them, we were in contact. He stated he did not feed them for a while. I wonder 2 things.
Did the IP inside make them look really bad, really fast?
I do believe he did do the right thing about keeping them from pooping up the bag so much, or is it better to sent fat fish?
As long as shipping is overnight, I thing either method was ok.

Chime in on that one.
gkai
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by gkai »

I think IP probably makes them thinner faster, but not hugely faster. IMHO IP can make a fish thinner in 2 ways:
-consuming part or all of what the fish eats, so that it is not available to the fish itself. This does not apply in this case, as the fish did not eat.
-feeding on the fish itself, well, it's blood mainly.

And both effects are not sufficient to get the fish visually thinner:To get a thinner fish, the IP should multiply and (partly) get out of the fish. If they stay inside, the fish will stay the same, not get thinner....only more of it's bulk will be IP.

if you did not find worms/stuff in the bag and the fish were thin at arrival, imho it is extremelly likely they were almost as thin when shipped. I am not an expert on fish biology and certainly not on fish shipping, so take it with a grain of salt, but the "what goes in must go out or stay in" logic rarely fail ;-)
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by Pufferpunk »

If you documented their skinny arrival & they die, I would certainly hope the supplier would stand behind this, considering the cost of these fish!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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astrid37
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by astrid37 »

I had a T. schoutedeni come in that looked about as skinny and tiny as your skinny guys. It took her about 3 weeks of live blackworms and live ramshorns to start looking like a normal puffer. She had been treated for IPs.
I am really rooting for you and your new family members. Please keep us posted! It's so nerve wracking to spend this much on fish, and care about them, and then to have something like this happen.
StinkyPete
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by StinkyPete »

Well we're on day 6.
Thanks for all the tips.

They surely do like their water changes. 50% two times per week and small 5 gallon bucket small changes almost every day to help keep the bare-bottom tank free of garbage.
Their tails get to span out much more and they must be feeling happy with the freshness.

Tonight will be the first time I get to see the 5 new puffers eat food soaked in Parazipro as I have been lurking around youtube and forums for any opinions I can see or read.

They love earthworm and it bulks up the belly more than any other food they have eaten.
They discard the thawed/frozen bloodworm casings and seem to chew them up and spit out casings.
The earthworm chomping makes small clouds out the gills.

I just arrived home with a plant spurge in lots of Anubias, Swords and Crypts.
It takes time placing the plants in the correct spots in a quarantine tank.
They will meet the 5 puffers soon.

PufferPunk ...."dilution is the solution" for sure.
Plants are an earthy cure for sure as well.

As for the seller helping out, I doubt it.
They arrived just as they described, as a live arrival guarantee would say.
Looking like this is just plain mean on his part.
People are always sweet and courteous when we come near with money, but for some reason seem to do what most people on Earth do.
- wander off with your money.


If I can get them to come through the first few weeks, this will be a dream.

I hope they can all get along like the ones we see in the Oliver Knott videos on Instagram, Youtube and Facebook.
That guy has some really nice tanks.

Thanks again for following the journey of the 5 puffs.
cdarminio
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by cdarminio »

According to his Facebook page:

Tetrodon schoutendeni
3"
Wild caught
Quarantined 2+ weeks
Eating every snail they can find!
$175 each
5 available

They still look a bit skinny in the picture, but not as emaciated as your photos so I'm skeptical about IP. Maybe your fish just need time to gain weight again.

Image
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by Pufferpunk »

I could have offered you a connection for way cheaper. I think I paid $125 for mine.
If they won't eat the medicated food, try adding a crushed garlic clove to enhance flavor & appetite.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
StinkyPete
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by StinkyPete »

cdarminio wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:23 am According to his Facebook page:
Image
The (above) photo provided was April 19th on his timeline for Facebook.
We do not have information on the puffers from that day of April 19th all the way up to June 16th (delivery day).
That's about 2 months in time span.
I would assume they are the same 5 puffers, but who knows.

I did have 2 choices as for usage of materials for shipping, and asked about using polyfilter the aquarium "soaker-upper" waste product.
The other stores who shipped to us used it to soak up the bad water in the shipping bags.
As we closed in on shipping dates, I stated to him to use the method you have best results with due to the experience of shipping more than me.
I'd assume fasting may have been the best method or theory #2, they did not look that good to begin with.


Day 7:
I am getting better belly results from earthworms they are starting to love.
No serious aggression yet either.

Rewind to "Day 1" from delivery.
The video below was from day 1 (delivery date).
The first 55 seconds are with the lights off and not much detail.
The rest of this video is with the lights on and more detail of the puffers overall shape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2j9VlR ... e=youtu.be
StinkyPete
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by StinkyPete »

Pufferpunk wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:37 pm I could have offered you a connection for way cheaper. I think I paid $125 for mine.
If they won't eat the medicated food, try adding a crushed garlic clove to enhance flavor & appetite.
:grats:

Send that link girl!
Bleedingheartmommy
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by Bleedingheartmommy »

I would really like to know who this seller is. Just to be aware, and PP says let it fly..

Have you treated for IPs yet? Even if my own mother promised me she did I wouldn’t even trust her word, I always double treat for parasites, bc these places are SO busy, and to us: this is OUR babies, to them it’s one of nearly 1,000 fish that they really make little revenue off of in the end.

How are they doing today?
"Genetics loads the gun, and environment pulls the trigger."-Brené Brown
Bleedingheartmommy
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by Bleedingheartmommy »

I think I know who the 125$ Seller is, good stock and good guy. PP- are you talking about Wes?
"Genetics loads the gun, and environment pulls the trigger."-Brené Brown
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by Pufferpunk »

Yes, Wes is A GREAT GUY! Really cares about his fish & his customers. <3
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
StinkyPete
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Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by StinkyPete »

Bleedingheartmommy wrote: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:49 am I would really like to know who this seller is. Just to be aware, and PP says let it fly..

Have you treated for IPs yet? Even if my own mother promised me she did I wouldn’t even trust her word, I always double treat for parasites, bc these places are SO busy, and to us: this is OUR babies, to them it’s one of nearly 1,000 fish that they really make little revenue off of in the end.

How are they doing today?

I totally agree.
Stores are so busy and undestaffed these days.
Most text and store statements are likely hype with good intent, but lack of proof.
These recent 5 puffers were from Aquatic Clarity in WI, USA. Good reviews, but I got an iffy/really skinny shipment I guess.
Too long of a fasting period before shipping.
I'd personally fast them a short time and place the soaker-upper called PolyFilter in the shipping bags like the WetSpotTropicalFish (Oregon) does for the shipments to soak up those toxins in the bag.

On a side note, I do see that Aquarium Co-op has a great quarantine youtube video on his method. His visit-and-view quarantine tanks of what comes in for you to buy is right there to see during the quarantine period.
They seem like a store that cares. The only thing I noticed about Co-op's MBU and Schoutedeni puffer videos is that he tosses frozen clams and misc food right into the puffer tanks.
He just did a new Schoutedeni follow up video this week (Mid June, 2018).
I would love to see a peacefull debate among PufferPunk and Cory of Aquarium Co-op on the frozen food subject, with sourced or cited claims of where the info is coming from.
The frozen (not thawed) food was said to be related to intestinal issues according to PufferPunk.


Day 9.
- All 5 are still all alive. :grats:
From the start, 2 of the 5 look round and soft (like my older order at Wetspottropicalfish in Oregon) and 3 of the 5 look longer/slimmer with 2 symmetrical points on the jawline.
- These 3 are the particular ones that were really skinny.
I have no research completed on males vs females. This is a noob observation.

Other observations etc.
- Parzipro has been in the water in proper ratio to the tank volume.
- Food is also soaked in Prazipro when I get the chance to. Not soaked 100% of the time so far.
- 'Noticed they breath heavier once the Prazipro is in the water, so I cranked up the Ehiem 350 surface skimmer to grab more surface bubbles and squirt the out micro bubbles. May add bubbler for the treatment period.
- 2 thicker round ones are still looking good (full looking and no distorted lumps in the belly region).
- 3 skinnies look better, but the worst one is still equal or less than flat (concave) at times in the belly. They get lumpy in the belly as in "not uniform" or full looking like what I would call normal.

- Most all are pooping bloodworm looking globs (staple food of frozen/thawed bloodworm), and at times the earthworms give their stool a meaty-looking lump out the caboose.
- No stringy looking parasite turds have been noticed. I still would need to see a few photos of what that actually looks like as an example to base things off of.

I have some photos of these recent 5 schoutedeni puffers I took today, the 24th of June (Day 9 with me).
I will upload them here this evening after I get done unloading groceries and normal stuff.

Just in case I'm not chiming in fast enough for a reply here, I do upload my aqaurium journey on Flickr (a photo sharing site).
I use the place to create a log of my fish, puffers and planted tanks.

Thanks for following along with the journey.
This is a great forum for niche specific topics on rare fish.

- and thanks Pufferpunk for the past info on such a specific fish.
I did not know the T. schoutedeni even existed until about 2 months ago. I figured if I could keep Dwarf puffs thriving, and handled giant poop machines like a giant pleco project tank, that I could handle a few Schoutedeni and it's higher filtration requirements.

Edit:
PICS posted.

Photo Notes:
- Notice the Bloodworm thick chunks out the caboose during potty-time.
- Day 8 of 9 days with them, I added the Sword plants until I can get other lower light plants in the tank.
- Some PetSupplyPlus stores have cheap plants that have some good size FYI. Crypt Wendtii, Swords, and more.
- My residence has somewhat bright dual windows (12ft away from the tank) with mini-blinds that seem to let algae grow on the glass, so I turned on the light and started adding plants now.
- Notice the last photo shows the dual symmetrical bumps on the schoutedeni puffer's jawline.
- Lots of filtration. 450 gph hang on filter on far end, 3 Cobalt MJ900 pumps with sponges on intake, and misc. filter parts to diffuse nozzle-like flow. The pumps keep the tank free of garbage, but not too much flow keeping them from coming out swimming in the soft swirl of waterflow.
- Ehiem 350 surface skimmer right next to Tidal 110 skimmer intake to keep the top clean of film and to snag air bubbles on the surface and spit them out into micro bubbles in the tank (60 gal. 48x15x16 high Seapora brand).

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Pufferpunk
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My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Skinny and delayed Tetraodon schoutedeni (spotted congo) shipment

Post by Pufferpunk »

Thanks for keeping us updated. Such lil cuties!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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