The Puffer Forum

Just an update on my gorgeous schoutedenis who after their near death experience with the fish delivery van are doing well.

One is growing more heavily than the other but both eating well. I'm ever hopefully I might get a female and male when they mature, either way they are apple of their puffer's mums eye.

Introduced a lot of new plants as had some die off and keep things interesting. Currently running a Fluval 306 and will upgrade later in year to 406.

Need to figure a way whether I can rewax/varnish the oak tank itself as water marks from water changes.

Lastly my snail colony died during our recent kitchen change so we are getting a 60 litre Biorb to restart the puffer feeding colony

Wow, great fish and beautiful aquascaping. I bet they love it there!

I'm sick of seeing these things. I'm about to put 50 a week back if they're still available in a month I'm biting the bullet.

Nice fish and love the greenery. Did you get these from wetspot?

Thank you both They are as spoilt as I let them and they love exploring new things.

Aw PYRU - they are expensive but absolutely worth it. Not just for the looks but personalities. If you can you won't regret it. I am in the UK so it took me 20 suppliers to find someone who could get me two into the country!

I've been on the fence about it for months now. I have it, but this is my way of flipping a coin. If they're still around then I'll take that as a sign .

Do you have any feeding vids or anything?

Not the best vid and this is from a couple of weeks back but let's see if this works

https://youtu.be/tosfAx7UGXY

A great supplier who really cares about his fish & customers is Wesley Wong. You can find him on Facebook. Tell him Pufferpunk sent you!

So curious to get some advice whether to rock the boat in my tank or not.

My schouts are doing well. One is a porker and growing steadily, the other is more streamline but gets plenty of food.

The porker is the more dominant of the two for sure and tends to be a chaser. It hasn't gotten to bullying stage and they have their separate safe zones. I'm steadily replacing live plants and they just don't do well in this tank so the aquascaping is getting thicker and better for lines of site.

Should/Could I add more schoutedeni? When there is a group of them does it go better for them? Or should I stick to my dedicated two?

I know some will disagree with what I am about to say. This is just my experience and not necessarily representative of how everyone's schoutedenis act together.

This is a tough question and one I was asking myself a lot in April. I had one adult schoutedeni who I had grown from a juvenile and was contemplating getting her a companion, especially after what I had read on this forum about some others' experiences with schoutedenis seeming to do very well in groups. My agonizing over what to do was "solved" when my spouse got me a baby schoutedeni for my birthday, and the only place for him to go was in her tank. It did not go well at all. The male baby was very friendly, and the adult female wanted absolutely nothing to do with him. The female, who is my pride and joy and used to get so excited when I came home, a very friendly, happy puffer, became withdrawn and was always hiding from the male baby. It got to the point where the adult female began choosing hiding from him over eating, and that was when I got another tank for him. (The one upshot to the story is that I was able to definitively determine their genders based on the male's incessant attempted practice mating advances toward the adult female.) Even with moving him, it still took a few months for the adult female to start to come out of her shell again.

Since I was going to be moving him into a new habitat, and I wanted more schoutedenis, I decided to get a 125g tank and purchased 5 more schoutedenis, for a total of 6 in the 125g. I introduced them all at the same time, which I think is a key thing from what I have observed, because their territories haven't already been established. That, and they are all about the same age, not one adult and one baby. If you did decide to purchase more, I know it sounds drastic, but if it were me, I would move them all into a new tank at the same time, as I think that would help cut down on the aggression. Getting them around the same age will help, too. It's absolutely terrifying to watch a full grown puffer go after a baby puffer, even if it's only a pseudo-nipping territory spat. I would also make the tank MUCH bigger than you thought necessary. Another thing I have learned from watching the 125g closely is that these puffers seem to require A LOT more territory per puffer than I had anticipated, particularly as they are still babies. I am not sure that the 125g is going to be big enough for all 6 of them territory-wise when they are grown. At that point, I may have to get another 55g or a 75g for 2 of them and transfer them to the tank simultaneously, as well (and hope my spouse doesn't leave me. He already thinks I am nutso for the tanks I have ). This is not a function of my 125g not being properly aquascaped, either, as the tank is a veritable warren of rocks, wood, and plants. I observed the puffers and then re-scaped the tank, taking great pains to break up lines of sight with rocks, wood, and plants, after being able to see specifically how they behave and interact. There are very few territory spats now, but they are still very young. It's also much harder in a group this size to feed any "underdog" schoutedeni that you might get if the ones you get are much smaller than your current schoutedeni and/or more aggressive. It's taking A LOT of work to keep one of the 6 in the 125 with even a tiny convex belly, and they are all about the same age/size. The rest are complete gorgers, but this one is very shy and defers to the others on food every time, so I have to sneak him/her food when the others can't see (another advantage of the many breaks in lines of sight.)
I hope some of this helps. Again, it's just been my experience and I'm sure not indicative of how this goes every time for everyone. It may be that I just happened to get a batch of puffers with these particular personalities!

Thank you for posting your observations on this! I will have several empty tanks soon for puffers & was considering 4-5 of them for my 46g bowfront. Do you think 3 would be OK or should I just consider a different species altogether?

Happy to! I've read other posts on here where people had other experiences, and I'm very happy for them. I wish mine were one big happy puffer family, too, but they're more like some kind of reality TV show lol. If you get ones like mine through the luck of the draw, I'd say you'd probably be ok with maybe 2 in a 46g bowfront as long as they were younger and introduced at the same time and the tank was aquascaped heavily (but you know that drill best of all!) .

Thank you so much astrid37 for that detailed information - really really helpful. I think I will not rock the boat as I won't be able to install further tanks if it goes wrong. I have a fellow puff advocate who would take any schoutedeni in a heartbeat as he was on board when got two but rather not have to rely on him for any further decisions.

I think I will continue to develop their tank and make more of a jungle to keep them interested in their 55g. The spats between the two have increased recently - nothing physical but chasing. I have been wondering if I have a female and she is egg bound perhaps as suddenely quite rotund and very territorial of a hide-a-hole in the corner I created. How do you know when you have a female or suspect? What age/size?

I have had these guys since January but they were in quarantine from December. So they will be at least 10 months old, they came to me about a 1cm big and they are now about 3cm.

The other one is the underdog. He holds his own for food but backs down the first. Thankfully not a concave belly but he looks skinny to me compared to the other blimp.

Thank you very very much for that insight, that has been incredibly helpful.

Having a sit down to think through, I do not think I will rock the boat. I think I will focus to continue to build their 55g tank into a jungle as I have noticed the open swimming space at the front causes a lot of chasing.

I wouldn't have the option to get a further tank in case new interactions went wrong. For these two if I feel their interactions are out of hand then I have a fellow puffer advocate that is itching to have one. Choosing would be way too hard though.

How do you tell if you have a female? At what size/age? I feel I have a female just due to the rotund size and she has become extremely territorial over a log in the corner. Her chasing has increased if the other goes anywhere near this spot and she chases him a lot if he pushes her buttons.

They would be at least 10 months old from what I can work out. They came to me 0.5 - 1cm big (absolutely tiny) and they are around 3 cms now.

The other is as you describe - the underdog. He does hold his own on food but it's not too bad target feeding. I keep worrying he is skinny but he doesn't have a concave belly and just looks like it compared to the blimp.

I'm so glad it helped! Had I known then what I know now, I don't think I would have rocked the boat, either, although now having them, I do love them all. I think I am going to try to breed them,if they'll cooperate. I adore the species, and I know I'm not alone in my preference for tank-raised puffers (and fish of all kinds) if at all possible.

I determined that I had a male/female combo in the original 55g tank from their behavior. The one that turned out to be the male was tiny and nowhere near adulthood, and yet he kept trying to latch onto the belly of the one who turned out to be female, so that pretty much clinched it. The female was an adult at this point, over a year old, and she was having absolutely none of it. She chased him every single time she laid eyes on him, and then he started returning the favor, so that's when the 125g saga started. She is also quite rotund as you describe yours, although she's longer, fully grown at about 11cm. I've been concerned that she's either egg bound or full of parasites, but I've treated her for parasites several times (and am even now treating with levamisole just in case), and she's been this rotund for 6 months now with her appetite and overall demeanor being good but not overly so to the point of being unhealthy, so I think that's just her. The male, as he is getting older and now in the 125, is not getting quite the same balloon effect that she has, so the overall body shape could very well be a partial indicator of sex, who knows.

I continue to have problems with my littlest puffer, Tetris, who is not a fan of the target feeding and defers to one and all on food. He (guessing on the gender) is a total space cadet and just swims around with this goofy happy look on his face and will only eat if no one, including myself or any other puffer, can see him. He's driving me crazy, but he's also secretly my second favorite, I think.

Try adding 1 tbsp Epsom salt/10g, if swollen.