Setting up a tank for DPs?

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viviana
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Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by viviana »

Hi! So recently I decided to set up a 20 gallon long for some dwarf puffers! My set up so far: I have 2 filters, a sponge filter and an aquaclear 70, also a 100 watt EHEIM Jager heater and Finnex planted+ LED lighting. I bought Eco-Complete Carib sand and I have a bunch of live plants and some wood on the way! I haven't started cycling the tank yet - I'm waiting for the plants. But I have a few questions:

Would 5 DPs be okay to live in there (alone) or would that be overstocked? And if I don't get the correct ratio of females to males 3:2, will there be a lot of aggression?
Did anyone here buy their DPs online? I don't believe any of my LFS carries them currently, so I may be forced to order them online and I was wondering if anyone could recommend me to a site. Again with the m/f ratio, what if I get too many of either sex?

Also does anyone here breed their own snails for their DPs? I was going to set up a five gallon, filtered and heated(?) for a snail colony and I was wondering what kind of snails to get? Thanks in advance!
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by Pufferpunk »

[welcome]
I'm not sure why you would use aragonite sand with a FW puffer?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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viviana
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by viviana »

Pufferpunk wrote:[welcome]
I'm not sure why you would use aragonite sand with a FW puffer?
It's not aragonite! http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=9087 <-- the exact one I bought. I believe it's for FW plants
pollypuff
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by pollypuff »

viviana wrote:Hi! So recently I decided to set up a 20 gallon long for some dwarf puffers! My set up so far: I have 2 filters, a sponge filter and an aquaclear 70, also a 100 watt EHEIM Jager heater and Finnex planted+ LED lighting. I bought Eco-Complete Carib sand and I have a bunch of live plants and some wood on the way! I haven't started cycling the tank yet - I'm waiting for the plants. But I have a few questions:

Would 5 DPs be okay to live in there (alone) or would that be overstocked? And if I don't get the correct ratio of females to males 3:2, will there be a lot of aggression?
Did anyone here buy their DPs online? I don't believe any of my LFS carries them currently, so I may be forced to order them online and I was wondering if anyone could recommend me to a site. Again with the m/f ratio, what if I get too many of either sex?

Also does anyone here breed their own snails for their DPs? I was going to set up a five gallon, filtered and heated(?) for a snail colony and I was wondering what kind of snails to get? Thanks in advance!
Sounds good except for the carib sand - DP's don't need that high of a PH and while they are adaptable I think you would be better off with a different substrate. Fluorite is good if your going for live plants, or a cheaper option would be pool sand or inert gravel and use some root tabs depending on what kind of plants you're getting. You can cycle the tank before the plants arrive if you want, plants aren't affected by a cycle like fish are.

In my experience I wouldn't go with more then 3 DP's in a 20 long. As for aggression it will depend on the puffers personality but in general, expect aggression at some level no matter what the ratio of sexes, they almost always nip at each other. Too many females together won't be much of a problem, too many males might be a different story.

I haven't bought DPs online but I hear aquabid is a good source for online fish in general.

I tried to breed ramshorn snails for my puffers but I couldn't keep up with the demand. Instead I added a bunch of trumpet snails (like, 30 adults) to the tank. The puffers can eat the adults, which usually come out at night, but MTS breed really fast and I find my puffers eventually just go for the baby snails because they're easier. MTS are good for plants too because they burrow into the substrate. Also they are considered pest snails because they breed like crazy and you might be able to convince your LFS to give you some for free, but if not they are super cheap. Cherry shrimp may be another option as far as live food goes but again, puffers will eat them faster then you can produce them so they might be more of a treat. Get different kinds of frozen food and rotate what you feed. I feed frozen mysis shrimp, bloodworms and mosquito larvae. You can also culture live brine shrimp and daphnia. I prefer daphnia but my culture crashed and I'm having trouble finding a new one.
Hope at least some of that helps!
viviana
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by viviana »

pollypuff wrote:
Sounds good except for the carib sand - DP's don't need that high of a PH and while they are adaptable I think you would be better off with a different substrate. Fluorite is good if your going for live plants, or a cheaper option would be pool sand or inert gravel and use some root tabs depending on what kind of plants you're getting. You can cycle the tank before the plants arrive if you want, plants aren't affected by a cycle like fish are.

In my experience I wouldn't go with more then 3 DP's in a 20 long. As for aggression it will depend on the puffers personality but in general, expect aggression at some level no matter what the ratio of sexes, they almost always nip at each other. Too many females together won't be much of a problem, too many males might be a different story.

I haven't bought DPs online but I hear aquabid is a good source for online fish in general.

I tried to breed ramshorn snails for my puffers but I couldn't keep up with the demand. Instead I added a bunch of trumpet snails (like, 30 adults) to the tank. The puffers can eat the adults, which usually come out at night, but MTS breed really fast and I find my puffers eventually just go for the baby snails because they're easier. MTS are good for plants too because they burrow into the substrate. Also they are considered pest snails because they breed like crazy and you might be able to convince your LFS to give you some for free, but if not they are super cheap. Cherry shrimp may be another option as far as live food goes but again, puffers will eat them faster then you can produce them so they might be more of a treat. Get different kinds of frozen food and rotate what you feed. I feed frozen mysis shrimp, bloodworms and mosquito larvae. You can also culture live brine shrimp and daphnia. I prefer daphnia but my culture crashed and I'm having trouble finding a new one.
Hope at least some of that helps!
! I wasn't aware that the eco-complete would raise the pH! It sounded really great up until now. Unfortunately, I already have a pretty high pH (7.7) and have been trying to lower it a bit already. Luckily I haven't opened any of the bags yet and can return them! I heard fluorite was very messy, but I'm willing to give it a try!

For the number of DPs, I've heard like: 3 gallons per DP, 5 gal for first DP and 3 gals for every one after, 10 gal for the first DP and 3 for every one after, 10 gal for the first and 5 for every one after. All sorts of different stocking rules haha. But I was generally thinking then 3-5 DPs. I know it's better to understock than to overstock, but how much would it affect the aggression do you think, if I did do 4-5?

As for the snails, I'm hoping some pond snails will have hitchhiked on the plants haha. I was planning on ordering 30 or so MTS and starting a colony with them regardless, though. As for frozen foods, I had brine shrimp and bloodworms currently (been feeding them to my betta). I heard blackworms were also good to culture/feed frozen? But I think I'm just going to start off with the snails and the frozen foods.

Thanks for the reply!
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by pollypuff »

can you post a link or picture of the bag of eco complete you have? I see most eco complete is geared toward keeping the PH high but maybe there is one that doesn't that I'm not aware of :P This is what I use http://www.rfitropicalfish.com/planted_ ... black_sand although I got it from my LFS and not online. I also use pool sand but as far as I know that only comes in white and you need to add root tabs to it like I mentioned before.
viviana
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by viviana »

pollypuff wrote:can you post a link or picture of the bag of eco complete you have? I see most eco complete is geared toward keeping the PH high but maybe there is one that doesn't that I'm not aware of :P This is what I use http://www.rfitropicalfish.com/planted_ ... black_sand although I got it from my LFS and not online. I also use pool sand but as far as I know that only comes in white and you need to add root tabs to it like I mentioned before.

http://m.drsfostersmith.com/product/pro ... catid=9087 Reading it now, it says that it shouldn't raise pH? I read somewhere in the reviews of it that if you rinse it well (which it says isn't needed but) it wouldn't affect the pH. But I wouldn't that get rid of the nutrients? I don't know. I was just about to purchase 4 bags of fluorite, but I half want to open a bag to try it out. What do you think?
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Pufferpunk
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Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
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suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by Pufferpunk »

I think most of us are more familiar with the Caribsea aragonite substrate, which does affect pH. Maybe this product is different?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
viviana
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by viviana »

I think I'll try it out then. Maybe just a bag in a different tank first. If it does raise my pH, then I'll just order some fluorite sand instead
pollypuff
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by pollypuff »

viviana wrote:
pollypuff wrote:can you post a link or picture of the bag of eco complete you have? I see most eco complete is geared toward keeping the PH high but maybe there is one that doesn't that I'm not aware of :P This is what I use http://www.rfitropicalfish.com/planted_ ... black_sand although I got it from my LFS and not online. I also use pool sand but as far as I know that only comes in white and you need to add root tabs to it like I mentioned before.

http://m.drsfostersmith.com/product/pro ... catid=9087 Reading it now, it says that it shouldn't raise pH? I read somewhere in the reviews of it that if you rinse it well (which it says isn't needed but) it wouldn't affect the pH. But I wouldn't that get rid of the nutrients? I don't know. I was just about to purchase 4 bags of fluorite, but I half want to open a bag to try it out. What do you think?
I think you're right, this should be fine to use. I used my google-fu skills and found that there is, indeed, eco complete that doesn't affect PH. Sorry about that, as Pufferpunk said I think most of us are familiar with the other one instead. I learn new things every day! I would give it a quick rinse but I don't think you have to go crazy, any cloudiness will be taken care of by your filter :) Show a picture when you get it set up!
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by TheStig »

No more than 3 DPs. The 3 gallon rule is outdated, and based on DPs' personality, they do best with lots of room. When you keep them, you'll finally understand why the 3 gallon rule wld be unfair to the little guys. More (as in numbers) is not better for these fish.

I wld suggest 10 gal for 1st puffer, and 5 gal for subsequent DP, *minimum*.

Too many keepers try to squeeze as much as they can, rather than go big as possible, with a lower bioload. It's like living in a crowded apartment... things will get tensed and nasty after awhile. It's good that you rather understock than the other direction, and you'll find even with just 3 DPs, they'll have enough personality to fill the entire 20 gal.
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viviana
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by viviana »

TheStig wrote:No more than 3 DPs. The 3 gallon rule is outdated, and based on DPs' personality, they do best with lots of room. When you keep them, you'll finally understand why the 3 gallon rule wld be unfair to the little guys. More (as in numbers) is not better for these fish.

I wld suggest 10 gal for 1st puffer, and 5 gal for subsequent DP, *minimum*.

Too many keepers try to squeeze as much as they can, rather than go big as possible, with a lower bioload. It's like living in a crowded apartment... things will get tensed and nasty after awhile. It's good that you rather understock than the other direction, and you'll find even with just 3 DPs, they'll have enough personality to fill the entire 20 gal.
Thank you for the reply!
Yeah, after some consideration, I decided that 3 would be for the best anyways. I am still worried about the gender ratio, though. With 3, would it be terrible if there was more than one male? I know it somewhat depends on the fish's personality, but I'm still worried as I'm not sure I will be able to separate them if there is too much aggression.
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Re: Setting up a tank for DPs?

Post by TOPuffers »

As many have mentioned, DP aggression is determined by each fish's personality.

We unknowingly ended up with 3 males in a 20 G tank, and they are fine. The tank is a planted little jungle, and there are places to hide for each puffer. Everyone gets along so far and we feed each puffer one at a time, when possible.
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