A new one -- DPs

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:25 pm

I have a 30 gallon at home with 6 DPs 2 otos and 1 glass/ghost shrimp. Today I saw the funniest thing. One of the otos was chasing a DP! He stopped but I wonder if before I looked, the DP took a nip and the oto wanted revenge. The little DP took off and the oto found some algea or something. Never would have imagined that!

By the way -- My tank is lightly stocked, and I'm happy with that. Would any more DPs or Otos be recommended? I can tell one DP is male but the rest are too young (or I got lucky and all female). They tend to chase eachother around a lot. I had driftwood issues so I'm slowly buying big cavey rocks. Hopefully that will help.

Later -- Cooper

Post by **RTR** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:30 am

Personally, I strongly support 'lightly stocked". I am not one to "fully" stock my own tanks if I can avoid it, with puffers especially. You will likely see much more normal behavior from the fish (including breeding from the DPs when they mature) and have many fewer tank problems if you are not skating at the edge on bioload. I cannot deal with tank that look like a sale tank at the LFS - I've never seen anything like that in nature.

But that is purely a personal choice and personal style item.

I do allow at least 3 gallons per DP under any circumstances, not including the allowances for any other inhabitants.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:33 am

Upon close observation, they are a bit aggressive with eachother. I'm trying to get more plants/big rocks, etc. as funds allow. I don't want to add any more just because I don't want any more fighting. It's kind of like Where's Waldo when the neighbor comes over with his little girl, trying to find all 6 + 2 otos. She just squeals when she "finds" another one.

I gave up on driftwood. Every LFS in town must be getting it from the same distributor and it's EXPENSIVE. They all (after I mention the water-yellowing and the mold) tell me I need to soak them for 30-90 days before using. I'm sorry, but if I'm going to pay $37 for a fancy piece of driftwood, it better be ready to go!

I've found Lava Rock to be cheaper, more readily available, and easy to clean. Any advice/precautions around that? I only have one small piece in each tank as of now.

Thanks again -- Cooper

Post by **Myaj** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:38 pm

Cooper, I currently have big lava rock chunks in my dp/SAP tank to make caves for the kribs that are also in there (yes, I know, mixing types is bad and some day I'll probably have to seperate but its working for now). I've been told by several people that lava rock is dangerous and can start to release things into the water...

Now this rock wasn't cheap and I"m not thrilled about having to yank it all out, but I'm going to do so. Luckily I found a small store with an excellent supply of driftwood, I spent over an hour going through all the pieces trying to find the right combination. I have the pieces soaking since they are releasing some tannis (not enough to tint the water with weekly changes but I'm just doing it to be cautious), but I haven't had any issues with fungus or anything. So some are out there, you just have to find them...

If its a smaller tank, definately check out the driftwood here:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW ... mdy00.aspx

It comes in small, medium and large. I've used several pieces of that driftwood, none of it leeched, no fungus and it sunk right away. They are very nice, natural looking pieces as well, so even though you can't pick and choose the exact piece, you still get some good looking chunks for a good price.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:47 pm

I saw some very nice fake driftwood at Petsmart a few weeks ago. Looked very real actually -- I may go back and examin it more closely now.

I don't want the poor little DPs to have to go through massive weekly re-aranging while I figure out what works -- hopefully this will work. I'll let y'all know!

Cooper

Steelgeek · Post by **Steelgeek** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:17 pm

Other than the initial fear of it, hunting puffs generally favor a rearrangement. THey get all excited and start looking around for food that might have been upset. I actually have to be careful with my DPs when doing tank stuff, as they have no fear and get in the middle of whatever I'm doing, like a cat when you're reading the newspaper.

Post by **RTR** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:14 pm

Actually, SG's warning is excellent and right on target. One of the biggest hazard's in a DP's life is the gravel vacuum - they can be sucked up easily - never take your eye of the gravel vac intake for a second.

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:05 pm

I use the other hand to shoo them away if I'm certain the other hose end will stay in the bucket! I was thinking of investing in a tank divider and herding them off to one side, cleaning the other, then herding back. Probably won't bother -- but it was a thought.

Oh, and the otos -- they act like they are blind sometimes. Clueless!

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:08 pm

Myaj - what have you heard can be released by lava/volcanic rock? We are talking about the brown/black rock honeycomed with small holes, right?

I've used it for about 20 years with no noticable changes to water parameters compared to tanks I've run without it, no bizarre fish deaths, etc.

Eric

Cooper · Post by **Cooper** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:17 pm

Good to hear! It's relatively cheap and pleantiful around here. I'm just afraid one DP will be chasing another and one will slam into one of the sharp parts.

Post by **RTR** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:21 pm

There have been multiple reports of heavy metal contamination in lava rock, and from it into the water. But lava rock is hardly a defined term at best. I do have some volcanic rock which came from a lanscape place, and while it is attractive, it is massively heavy - unlike the usual pumice-like material which is not dense at all. I have never tested it, but I've also never used it. Eternal storage in a wooden box in the garage.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:42 pm

That's interesting about the metals leaching into water, but as far as I can tell it's not been a problem for me...I have otos (I consider them bellweather fish) that seem fine and have for years.

I'd be willing to hazard a guess that it's not the rock itself but the multiple spaces contamiments can get into that would be causing the problem, especially if the lava/pumice rock has been used for anything other than aquarium usage. I always wash mine in very hot tap water and let them sit in the tub until they stop letting our air - often 4-6 hours with multiple turnings. I then repeat the whole thing over. I also only buy the stuff from my LFS and maybe they just have a good supplier.

Eric

Steelgeek · Post by **Steelgeek** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:49 am

I would imagine that the composition of lava rock would vary incredibly depending on the geologic area it came from.
Metal toxins could easily be in one batch but not another.
This falls into the "Not Worth The Risk" category for me.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:34 am

This brings up the question, though, is any rock truly safe? I'm surrounded by limestone bluffs, and limestone isn't necessarily pure, either. Isn't Texas holey rock nothing more than limestone that has holes created by running water?

Granite and slate might be two of the safest rocks that I can think of.

Eric

Post by **Myaj** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:30 pm

Well, there you have it.. I've heard so much good and bad I don't know what to believe...

But with the new driftwood, I won't have room for the lava rock chunks anyways so they are coming out. I've had the tank set up for about 2 years with the lava rock (from the fish store and acutally I had epoxy'd together chunks of the stuff you use for grills as well to make rockwork, it wasn't coated or anything but those I'm a bit afraid of), with no problems. Also I've heard many, many people use the lava rock chunks that are for gas grills as a cheap, efficent biofilter media.

This is what a friend of mine had to say about it, he's a geologist and a fish keeper:

Most volcanic rocks and their metamorphic equivalents are safe: basalt, andesite, rhyolite, etc. There are rare carbonate-bearing lavas, but these are indeed rare. Volcanic rocks originally deposited underwater sometimes have filled voids or lenses of carbonate, so volcanic rocks of all sorts should be tested with acid. Metamorphosed volcanic rocks are commonly greenish in color (if metabasalts or meta-andesites) and are generally safe, except for the occasional carbonate vein.

But even after all that, I dont think I'll take the chance anymore.

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A new one -- DPs

A new one -- DPs