I lost one of my bw Puffers yesterday. I will explain in more detail when I have a little more time. I've had him for about 5yrs and he has two tankmates and a former tankmate remaining. The death was very sudden and I would like to find cause-of-death, partly just to know what happened, and partly so I can see if it is something that is a threat to the remaining Puffs.
I've asked everyone I can think to ask and I've Googled my fingers off but I haven't had any luck finding somewhere to send the Puffer to for examination.
Can anyone help me out with this? Do you know of a facility, university, vet, or individual who could take a look at the Puff? (He's currently double-baggied in the refrigerator).
Thank you.
Where to send for Necropsy?
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Feathers&Fins
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:42 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Pufferless since Nova passed; had 2 red T.miuris, 4 T.biocellatus for many years.
- Location (country): KY (USA)
- Location: (US) Kentucky
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Boxermom
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 2182
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:34 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
Try contacting someone here http://www.aquavets.com/
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
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Puffer Queen
- Mentor
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:35 am
- Location: Louisville, KY
- Contact:
Sorry for your loss.
Try contacting "Labdoc" - Dr Marty Bell in Texas.
He has done numerous seahorse necropsies and I believe some fish.
You can PM him through http://www.marinedepot.com/forums or http://www.seahorse.org.
Try contacting "Labdoc" - Dr Marty Bell in Texas.
He has done numerous seahorse necropsies and I believe some fish.
You can PM him through http://www.marinedepot.com/forums or http://www.seahorse.org.
Kelly
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Feathers&Fins
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:42 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Pufferless since Nova passed; had 2 red T.miuris, 4 T.biocellatus for many years.
- Location (country): KY (USA)
- Location: (US) Kentucky
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. PufferQueen, Marty actually recommend you. 
I figured Marty is bogged down enough with all the Seahorse necropsies; didn't want to add to his work load.
When I found the Puffer it was floating, there was no eye movement, and no detectable breathing. I was certain it was dead. Then it started taking a breath, croaking, and twitching every great once in a while. I decided to see if I could revive it so I flushed it's gills and got it breathing more regularly. Then I "burped" it and got a few air bubbles out. After that it swam to the bottom of the bowl, was breathing very hard, and was more alert. I quickly setup a hospital tank and put him in it. He appeared to get a little better but died several hours later.
The doctor has examined my Puff and determined that the primary cod was a very heavy infestation of Trematodes (gill flukes). He is doing cultures to see if there were any secondary bacterial infections. This is surprising because none of my fish are showing symptoms of gill flukes. Regardless, it looks like everyone is about to get aquainted with the PraziPro.
I figured Marty is bogged down enough with all the Seahorse necropsies; didn't want to add to his work load. When I found the Puffer it was floating, there was no eye movement, and no detectable breathing. I was certain it was dead. Then it started taking a breath, croaking, and twitching every great once in a while. I decided to see if I could revive it so I flushed it's gills and got it breathing more regularly. Then I "burped" it and got a few air bubbles out. After that it swam to the bottom of the bowl, was breathing very hard, and was more alert. I quickly setup a hospital tank and put him in it. He appeared to get a little better but died several hours later.
The doctor has examined my Puff and determined that the primary cod was a very heavy infestation of Trematodes (gill flukes). He is doing cultures to see if there were any secondary bacterial infections. This is surprising because none of my fish are showing symptoms of gill flukes. Regardless, it looks like everyone is about to get aquainted with the PraziPro.
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Feathers&Fins
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:42 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Pufferless since Nova passed; had 2 red T.miuris, 4 T.biocellatus for many years.
- Location (country): KY (USA)
- Location: (US) Kentucky
An update…
Well, it's even worse than we thought. The Puff indeed had a bacterial infection of the Mycobacterium species. The doc believes it was most likely Mycobacterium marinum. That is the worst type of bacteria to have and it is transmittable to brackish, full marine, and freshwater.
I've had my Puffs for so many years that they have the same maintenance equipment, not to mention, they are in very close proximity to one another. This means that my three other T.biocellatus, two T.miurus, Goldfish, Pleco, and pond snail cultures have all been exposed. (I'm glad my Seahorses reside in a different room with different equipment although I'm still concerned the Myco may somehow spread to their room and hop into their tank).
Since nearly all of my fish are wild-caught, I cannot be certain they were not already carrying Myco when they came into my care. However, since some of them have been with me for more that five years with no symptoms, I suspect they likely contracted the bacteria from being fed store-bought treats of live "red wigglers" (earthworms) and crickets. M.marinum can be found in the soil that such critters are exposed to.
For those who may not know, Myco is insideous and there is no treatment. It is most often recommended that the fish be euthanized and all equipment sterilized.
I'm not planning to euthanize these guys. I'm going to treat one of the two T.biocellatus tanks for the Trematodes (Dactylogyrus species) in hopes that if the flukes are irradicated the Puffs might have a chance of not developing Myco as an active infection.
Well, it's even worse than we thought. The Puff indeed had a bacterial infection of the Mycobacterium species. The doc believes it was most likely Mycobacterium marinum. That is the worst type of bacteria to have and it is transmittable to brackish, full marine, and freshwater.
I've had my Puffs for so many years that they have the same maintenance equipment, not to mention, they are in very close proximity to one another. This means that my three other T.biocellatus, two T.miurus, Goldfish, Pleco, and pond snail cultures have all been exposed. (I'm glad my Seahorses reside in a different room with different equipment although I'm still concerned the Myco may somehow spread to their room and hop into their tank). Since nearly all of my fish are wild-caught, I cannot be certain they were not already carrying Myco when they came into my care. However, since some of them have been with me for more that five years with no symptoms, I suspect they likely contracted the bacteria from being fed store-bought treats of live "red wigglers" (earthworms) and crickets. M.marinum can be found in the soil that such critters are exposed to.
For those who may not know, Myco is insideous and there is no treatment. It is most often recommended that the fish be euthanized and all equipment sterilized.
I'm not planning to euthanize these guys. I'm going to treat one of the two T.biocellatus tanks for the Trematodes (Dactylogyrus species) in hopes that if the flukes are irradicated the Puffs might have a chance of not developing Myco as an active infection.
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Puffer Queen
- Mentor
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 10:35 am
- Location: Louisville, KY
- Contact:
Unfortunately mycobacterium is fairly common in wild caught puffers. I have necropsied several DOA (dead on arrival) puffers and have found multiple granulomas that were diagnosed at a vet lab as mycobacterium. Unfortunately many fish especially puffers will eat dead fish in the ocean - these fish may have died from myco or had myco in them when they died.
Kelly
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32776
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- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Chicago
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Puffer Queen
- Mentor
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Feathers&Fins
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:42 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Pufferless since Nova passed; had 2 red T.miuris, 4 T.biocellatus for many years.
- Location (country): KY (USA)
- Location: (US) Kentucky
Yep, PP, it is.
PQ, I wouldn't have expected these guys to live so long in my care if they had Myco from the go? Do you think they were in a carrier state and a sudden increase in their parasite load caused the Myco to become an active secondary infection?
I still can't believe they've had trematodes all these years with no symptoms.
PQ, I wouldn't have expected these guys to live so long in my care if they had Myco from the go? Do you think they were in a carrier state and a sudden increase in their parasite load caused the Myco to become an active secondary infection?
I still can't believe they've had trematodes all these years with no symptoms.
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Puffer Queen
- Mentor
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Pandora114
- Green Spotted Puffer
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- My Puffers: C. travancoricus RIP both of you little guys. Tank will be a F8 after GSP goes full marine
T. nigroviridis Named Pepsi - Location: Comox Valley, BC, Canada
- Contact:
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Feathers&Fins
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 201
- Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:42 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Pufferless since Nova passed; had 2 red T.miuris, 4 T.biocellatus for many years.
- Location (country): KY (USA)
- Location: (US) Kentucky