MAPPA Puffer and proper preventive Ich treatmet

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Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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kurkoa
Puffer Fry
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:18 pm
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MAPPA Puffer and proper preventive Ich treatmet

Post by kurkoa »

Hi,

I recently picked up my first puffer that will eventually be going into my 210 gal FOWLR tank. All my fish go through a 6 - 8 week quarantine process, where I usually use Prazipro as well as Copper for 6 weeks. I know that I need to do something different here as puffers do not take well to copper. The puffer is in a 75 gal with a spiny box puffer. My first method of treatment for internal parasites was API General Cure - which I heard was less harsh on puffers then Prazi.

My question is what would be the best and safest method of treatment for Ich and puffers? I was going to use Hikari's Ich-X but was curious if others had success using any other products - or Ich X is fine. I don't have any indication that puffers have Ich, but really feel better if I treat before they go into my display tank.

Thanks!
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Pufferpunk
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Re: MAPPA Puffer and proper preventive Ich treatmet

Post by Pufferpunk »

GeneralCure is garbage. Prazi is fine. Ich-X works great!
Minimum tank size for an adult Mappa is 250g & even that's a bit small for a 26" fish.
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=28775
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
kurkoa
Puffer Fry
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:18 pm
Location (country): USA

Re: MAPPA Puffer and proper preventive Ich treatmet

Post by kurkoa »

Why do you say General Cure is garbage? my MAPPA didn't east for a week - started to worry and many folks recommended to use GC as it may have internal parasites / worms. I used it and almost immediately after treating with GC the puffer started eating. Could this be a coincidence? perhaps ... but I felt that it must have done something.
User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32764
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: MAPPA Puffer and proper preventive Ich treatmet

Post by Pufferpunk »

API General Cure and why you should avoid using it.

I know that API General Cure is a common medication which has gained a lot of popularity from its endorsement by Aquarium Co-Op, but it is not a medication that I recommend.
It is, in my opinion, a low grade product that offers aquarists a “shotgun approach” to treating fish diseases in home aquariums and can cause issues more serious than the common, easily treated ailments that it is used commonly used to treat.
I am not saying that API General Cure doesn't work.
I am saying that there are much better alternatives, that do not come with the same risks or stress to the fish that API General Cure does.
General Cure's composition is 80% Sodium Chloride, 1-10% Metronidazole, 1-5% Praziquantel (worming agent) and 1-5% silica amorphous.

Metronidazole
First of all, Metronidazole is an antibiotic and antiprotozoal that does not discriminate against ‘good’ and ‘bad’ bacteria. It tries to kill all of it, including the little microorganisms who's job it is to maintain the nitrogen cycle in your aquarium.
The use of General Cure and other antibiotic based medications puts your cycle at risk, which can then expose the fish to lethal levels of ammonia and/or nitrite.
Another little victim of antibiotic use is the fish’s gut microbiota.
Their gut flora (mainly bacteria and archaea) play an essential role in the fish’s development, digestion, nutrition, immunity and disease resistance.

Damaging this gut flora can have many negative implications and it can take a long time for the microbiota to fully recover after antibiotics have been used.

Changing the levels of gut microbiota can disturb what is a finely balanced ratio of “good” and “bad” bacteria.
By removing some of the “good” bacteria, you can actually encourage the growth of “bad” (pathogenic) bacteria, predisposing your fish to further illness.
The most noticeable symptom of damaged gut flora is a reduction in appetite, owed to uncomfortable digestion. This can be especially troublesome for fish who have been freshly imported and stressed who need to build up their energy reserves.
Antibiotic-resistance
Another very serious effect of antibiotic use is the increase of antibiotic-resistant bacteria found after their use, which can invade the host (your fish) and cause illnesses that are very difficult to treat.

The use of antibiotics can make infections that are very easy to treat now, very difficult (sometimes impossible) to treat in the future.
We are now seeing antibiotic-resistant strains of Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, Columnaris, and other bacterias invade home aquariums, after either they or the shop from which the fish were purchased, used antibiotics.
Antibiotic-resistance is not just a problem for our hobby. It is a very serious problem for modern medicine as a whole.

Sodium Chloride
Another issue with General Cure is the most abundant ingredient in it, sodium chloride or "salt". Sodium chloride has no place in the freshwater aquarium, for several reasons.

Sodium chloride is an irritant to freshwater fish. The slime coat which people claim helps the fish "fight infection" is actually just the body's response to the irritant.
The excess "slime" can enter the gills, reducing surface area across the gill filaments, making breathing more difficult. This is especially dangerous in pufferfish because they lack traditional gill plates, so the slime can enter the gills more easily.
This problem is worsened by the fact that sodium chloride leaves less molecular space in the water for free-available oxygen. Combine these two things and the risk of hypoxia is greatly increased.
Sodium chloride also causes immeasurable stress to freshwater fish’s osmoregulation, which can lead to dehydration and further discomfort. This extra work in maintaining osmosis requires further energy from the fish, reducing their ability to fight the ailment.
Sodium chloride can also damage the filter bacteria, increasing the risk of a crash when combined with the antibiotic, metronidazole.
The majority of freshwater fish lack the necessary physiological features required to secrete sodium chloride, which is why toxic salt deposits can be found within the organs of freshwater fish up to two years after initial exposure.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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