Schoutedeni not doing well.

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Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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lilacamy931
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Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by lilacamy931 »

Tank Stats:
55g
occupants already in there: 2 cardinals, 2 guppies
Recently cycled, 27C, live plants, sand, fluval 306 filter, aqua sky lighting.

New arrivals: 2 x 1 inch schoutedeni puffers.

What happened: They were misdelivered it took a couple of extra hours to get them home safe. When arrived one was belly up and one was extremely stressed and weak.
We slowly heat and water acclimatised them over a 45 min period. Hubby noticed on the belly up one (which I thought was dead) was fluttering so we decided to try.

Now: I have had them in a sieve in the tank for 4 hours as they were pretty weak.
I've quickly done a 25%water change as small minimal ammonia showing now back 0.
I haven't released them into the main part of the tank as was concerned they were not strong enough.

Advice needed:
Do I keep them in the large sieve inside the tank overnight and see how they are in the morning?

Or do I chance it and release into the tank as potential more stress on them being in the sieve?
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lilacamy931
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Location: Bournemouth

Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by lilacamy931 »

I've chanced it and released into main tank - they maintained their descent and in amongst the plants from view.
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by Pufferpunk »

I wish you luck with them. By far, one of my favorite puffers but I won't get them again.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by Bleedingheartmommy »

Pp- I feel lawful cutting into the issue at hand, but I thought you just got 2 schoutedeni? I have been away for a while, so I’m sorry if I missed something.

Lilacamy931- I wish i would have got to you sooner. Methylene blue, sold in prediluted bottles- perfect for newly arrived fish as it soothes burns from ammonia and nitrites which happen during shipping. It’s nearly impossible to overdose, and this stuff helps when you can’t qt also. Its main boast is it’s abolity to essentially deliver extra oxygen to the blood, and I will never be caught without it. It’s literally pulled puffers out of that “death float” out of the shipping box. By far the one thing, if only one- you should have for first aid! Take a look:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com ... ylene_blue
"Genetics loads the gun, and environment pulls the trigger."-Brené Brown
Bleedingheartmommy
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by Bleedingheartmommy »

It sounds like they were going through poisoning, your seller must not know that these guys need DAYS of fasting before shipping, or a day with All that messy puffer waste and respiration, will really do much more harm than to a reg tropical fish bc the poop is worse and puffs are so sensitive anyway. Keep an eye out for ICH, sounds like they had a rough trip, and it’s opportunistic so the stress from the trip can often let it in.

I truly hope they continue to recover. And maybe grab some SeaChem stability- it will help ensure the levels don’t get harmful while your biofilter catches up with the added ammonia etc from two New puffs!
"Genetics loads the gun, and environment pulls the trigger."-Brené Brown
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lilacamy931
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by lilacamy931 »

@pufferpunk - thank you, shame to hear you won't get more of these, but understandable after what you went through. I hope these guys pull through, we checked on them a moment ago and they are in amongst the pants moving about. So will check on them in the morning with fins crossed!

@Bleedingheartmommy - thank you for the advice. I've got Meth Blue but by British King as had years ago and remembered to have to hand, didn't think to add to tank though with plants and ornaments.
I have two other products that was recommended:
Microbe-lift herbtana immunie stimulant-P and Microbe-lift artemiss immunie stimulant-B.
I have dosed one and will does they other shortly - these are all natural and apparently meant to aid immune system

Ah so the death float can happen? It makes sense from what you have said and their tummies look fairly rounded so guessing they fed them up before posting. I've had fish delivered in the past and never had this issue even with puffs. It's been a pretty stressful day all around.

I will pop local tomorrow and get Seachem stability - thank you
Bleedingheartmommy
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by Bleedingheartmommy »

I am so glad they are settling! What I do is a partial water change, without gravel vac, not only in prep for new fish- but to steal the water! I use the tank water for the base of a fish bath. Then I dose methylene blue to the bath, and that’s what I use for drip acclimation (when they show up that rough of shape- it’s a must to not follow your inner voice screaming “get them out of that awful water”, as they can go into shock further from the quick flux in water quality. Once their in a container and have mixed mostly clean “bath” solution, I will let them hang out for 30 minutes or so, before moving them into their new homes. You did well, and it sounds like they will get much better. Don’t worry if they don’t want to eat for a while, once they settle in I bet you will get a better look at them to make sure they’re healthy still. Keep an eye out for inflamed red gills, if you notice this- a MB bath will still be a great aid in their recovery. Otherwise, they’re resilient and should bounce back!
"Genetics loads the gun, and environment pulls the trigger."-Brené Brown
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lilacamy931
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by lilacamy931 »

@Bleedingheartmommy - thank you so much for all the advice, going to keep strict eye water parameters and do some water changes to keep top quality condition. Straight to LFS tomorrow for seachem stability, some live foods and garlic juice.
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lilacamy931
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by lilacamy931 »

Happy to report this morning, both alive. Once put dimmed lighting on they did pop out for a brief bit and one even fanned his tail.

Off to get those supplies today and attempt to feed them.
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by Pufferpunk »

Yay! Mine loved small Walmart worms.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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lilacamy931
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My Puffers: 200 litre - waiting for a schoutedeni
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by lilacamy931 »

They've taken to fresh prawn soaked in garlic juice. Could not source live bloodworm so will see if they take to frozen next.

3 x LFS did not have any seachem stability so i've ordered some for next day delivery.

I've attached some images of them which will hopefully show.
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lilacamy931
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by lilacamy931 »

So some last questions - the puffers having been with me over a week now are doing well, eating well. Their personalities have started to come out and time will tell if they can be permanent companions.

Regarding NitrAtes I have a bit of a concern regarding my water. I keep getting high nitrates of 40ppm.

I've done all of the following things that I know:
- Getting rid of any plant debris
- Removing any excess food
- Cutting back feedings
- Vacuuming sand
- Large water changes
- Swished filter media in bucket of tank water to get rid of gunk as not done since set up in November.

After a google search read to test baseline of tapwater. The readings are confusing me bad!
Out of the tap currently reading 80PPM or more!

Whilst cycling the readings have been steadily increasing from 0ppm upwards. When I tested the tank earlier this evening it was 40ppm. I did a 60-70% water change and now the tank reading is at 80PPM.

I might retest tomorrow incase I've run them wrong as something is off. This is the API Master test kit also
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by gkai »

Is your tank planted? If it is and the plants are doing well, it's perfectly possible to have less nitrates in the tank than out of the tab. In this case, more frequent water change will get nitrates higher. I had that, and if you are in a agricultural region, distribution water is almost always high in nitrates... If you look at my posts you should find the thread were if reported exactly what you are observing.
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Pufferpunk
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
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My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by Pufferpunk »

I wonder what nitrate level is safe for human consumption? Might want to complain to your water company.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
gkai
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Re: Schoutedeni not doing well.

Post by gkai »

A quick search returned 50mg/l max in Europe, 10mg/l in the US. Iirc, mine was around 40, both from my test readings and from the water quality info my water supplier (have to) provide on the net...
80mg seems a lot, probably safe for temporary consumption but possibly harmful in the long term...it's too high though, if real this water is non drinkable...
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