GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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cr302186
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GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

Post by cr302186 »

All,

Over the past year, I've had to use a barrage of Paraguard, PraziPro, API General Cure (4 weeks in tank and then 1 week dosed in food) and prescription antibiotics (dosed in food) to address my GSP's symptoms which ranged from subtle twitching to violent flashing, clamped gills and even a few days barely alive as lump of charcoal. The scariest symptoms have mostly subsided but two months ago he began to develop white patches on his back which appeared to be healing gradually... but have just now suddenly reappeared and spread.

Call in the professionals: Skin scrape/fecal testing by an Ivy League veterinarian and two weeks of daily observation by a career marine biologist from local aquarium both proved inconclusive.

PLEASE HELP! Any ideas of what this is or how to cure my little guy?

Image

Image



Conditions:

1) Water Parameters (using API Master / Red Sea hygrometer)
- PH: 8.4
- Ammonia: 0 (too low to detect)
- Nitrites: 0 (too low to detect)
- Nitrates: <2ppm (barely detectable)
- Salinity 1.020

2) Tank Description
- 67 gallon display (48x18x18)
- 20 gallon sump
- Single GSP (no tank mates)
- Eheim Canister Filter w/SeaChem matrix + carbon
- Reef Octo 110 skimmer
- 15 lbs dry rock (in tank for 11 months)
- 1 - 1.5" of aragonite sand

3) Tank Routine
- Located in my office (he loves the constant activity of visitors but yawns during conference calls!)
- Feeding lobster tail + hikari clam soaked in BioChem and Selcon
- Biweekly 30-40% water changes with generous dosing of Seachem Stability, Pristine and Prime
- Lights are generally off before 7am and after 7pm (he gets grumpy otherwise!); thereafter only moonlight through the window (no ambient night lighting in my area of the building)

4) Changes
- Relocated 9/7 - 9/28/17 during my honeymoon for daily observation by marine biologist (held solo in a 90 gallon tank w/30 gallon sump)

5) Tank Established
- Sep 2016: Tank established via fishless cycle with Seachem Stability
- Oct 2016: GSP introduced as sole inhabitant (approx 1.5 inches)
- Sep 2017: GSP has grown to 3.5 inches +/-
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Pufferpunk
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Re: GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

Post by Pufferpunk »

Look up Vibro. That's what the white patches sound like. Unfortunately Photobucket doesn't allow direct linking, unless you upgrade to a PAYING membership. You can post the link here though. I sure would like to see what he looks like for better diagnosis.
IDK why you keep dosing Stability, if the tank is already cycled. I would suggest 1 1/2-2lbs live rock/gallon for that system. Then you can dump that canister.
He also would appreciate more rock/decor to swim around & investigate. Not sure what Pristine is for.
In an established SW system (with the amount of cured LR I suggested) you should only need to do 1/3 WC monthly, especially with a single 4" GSP in a 87g system.
I'd vary his diet a bit more: library/feeding/feeding-your-puffers/
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
cr302186
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Re: GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

Post by cr302186 »

Thanks for the response, PP!

I feared it could be vibrio when the symptoms first appeared two months ago, but I was under the impression that vibrio kills within 36-48 hours? Here is a direct link to a few pics, hopefully this will help the diagnosis:

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... zt9k92.jpg

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... v8m3xf.jpg

As to your other questions:

- The Stability bottle recommends supplemental dosing in conjunction with water changes, so I figured it couldn't hurt.
- The cannister filter has two chambers of Seachem matrix (pomace pebble biomedia) in lieu of of more rock in the display tank. Should I phase out the cannister for more live rock in the sump?
- I switched to more plastic decor (caves and a 30" mangrove root) in lieu of rock in the display tank because he spends a lot of time trying to bite, pry and peek into every crevice looking for food... which led to visible scrape marks on his body. Am I being overly concerned?
- Ironically, it was your signature block and your recommendations in other threads which prompted my current 40% biweekly schedule LOL Great to know I can cut back the water changes a bit!
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32764
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

Post by Pufferpunk »

LOL, yes, my sig is correct but 50% is the weekly recommendation for FW, not SW (is proper biological filtration is used). Unfotrunately, Photobucket has become a real PIYA, is you don't subscribe to them now. Grrrrrr!!! You are correct, vibro is a very fast killer. I was just gong by your description. Puffer's skin is like leathery sandpaper. I doubt his skin will be damaged by the rocks. They sure are hunters & peckers though!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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hadla
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Re: GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

Post by hadla »

Yeah I’d get some actual live rock, they like to do “inspections” and it keeps them occupied lol, don’t know how I can help with anything else though... hope he gets better :/
Never trust big puffers. The fingers you save may be your own. -RTR
cr302186
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Re: GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

Post by cr302186 »

I tried another week of antibiotics but the symptoms seem to slowly built. At PP's advice, I then scrapped the canister filter... and in just 5 days my little bugar ball was about 80% clear, if not more. I forgot I had two bags of carbon in there (and apparently not very well rinsed, tons of dust residue in the filter chamber) and now I'm inclined to think this may have been HLLE. Whatever it was, it seems PP's simple advice made a huge improvement.

The water isn't quite as cristal clear, so maybe in need to re-tune my skimmer but I can live with that so long as my little buddy does too!

Thanks so much!!!
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32764
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

Post by Pufferpunk »

:supercool: How about that???
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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hadla
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Re: GSP - Ivy League Vet + Marine Biologist stumped! Please help!

Post by hadla »

Glad he’s doing better!
Never trust big puffers. The fingers you save may be your own. -RTR
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