So I asked my locally owned fish store (not a petsmart or chain - fish kept in good conditions, rarely see dead fish in there, knowledgable staff who care about the fish, won't just try to sell me things for the sake of it) to get some F8's for me. I only needed 1 or 2 but they picked up 7 or so as they get their fish from some sort of wholesale market every week and that's just how they buy generally. I couldn't take them home right away as my tank was still cycling and they looked perfectly healthy and active once they arrived. After about 3 days they all came down with ick and only 3 were left. I'm trying to get my tank cycled in time to take these three back and treat them (the lfs can't treat it very well as their tank is on a sump with about 20 others).
My question is why did this happen (just the stress of moving?) and is it avoidable? I know how ick works and manifests but any ideas as to why specifically in this case? Does this happen a lot with F8's or is it just because puffers are scaleless and prone to disease?
I don't want to ask them to order more if that means another group of puffers dying. I may try and convince them to only order as many as I can take right away so that if they do come down with ick I can treat it. If it's something with F8's generally I may try to get SAP's instead. Thoughts?
Puffers got ick at LFS - reason?
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Welch4
- Fahaka Puffer
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Re: Puffers got ick at LFS - reason?
I would say stress of transport. They are coming a LONG way before they get to your LFS. Patience is key in this hobby/passion. I would wait till your tank cycles and see what they have for stock if they aren't health wait for the next batch. You can ask when they get their shipments so once they get them in you can pick through what they have before the f8s make it into their tanks. Most LFS I know will let you do this.
Forget other advice about puffers you don't hear here - Pufferpunk
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
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- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
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burrfish
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Re: Puffers got ick at LFS - reason?
SAPs are even more susceptible to ich/velvet, when moved to a new environment. I would get some Tetra Safestart, add it to your filter & add the fish. Ich is easy to clear up with salt/heat/large daily WC. See the articles we have in the Hospital section in the forum & in our Library for more info.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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bigpuff
- Figure 8 Puffer
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Re: Puffers got ick at LFS - reason?
It was my understanding that safe start raises the ammonia to ~1ppm for 1-2 weeks (per this Q&A with a Tetra employee: http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/aquar ... start.html), wouldn't that kill the puffers or not because its only a short amount of time? It also says not to do water changes because the dechlorinators kill the safe start bacteria? Not saying you're wrong, I've never used it, just want to be able to save these puffers! Thanks for all the help you give on here! 
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32773
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Chicago
- Contact:
Re: Puffers got ick at LFS - reason?
I think you need to read that again. It says nowhere that Safestart raises ammonia. Safestart contains the live nitrifying bacteria which eats ammonia, to safely & instantly cycle a FW tank. You don't want to do a WC for 48 hours so the bacteria can establish itself from the water column to surfaces where it lives, which is why I suggest pouring directly it into your filter. I never heard of dechlorinators killing bacteria, otherwise, it would kill the bacteria in all our tanks. I agree not to use an ammonia remover--most of us use Prime here, which renders the ammonia harmless to fish. It is always good to continue keeping a close eye on parameters & do WC after the 48 hours of adding this product, if ANY ammonia is seen.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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bigpuff
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:07 pm
- Location (country): United States
Re: Puffers got ick at LFS - reason?
It says: "You have to have some ammonia occur in the tank to provide the cycle needed, so it will usually create levels or reduce levels to around 1.0-1.5 ppm, and they should stay there for a week to 14 days, and then come down. Sorry, these levels would be for both ammonia and nitrite. These are considered stress, but not toxic, levels, and should not cause any long term damage to the fish."
But thankfully my ammonia and nitrites were actually at 0 today when I came back! Just hoping the puffers are still alive when I get there tomorrow. Also, I have a bit of an off-topic question: in the F8 article it says F8's beaks tend not to grow as quickly as other puffers - is it possible to avoid trimming their teeth completely with the use of snails and such, or is it still only a matter of time before trimming becomes necessary? If so, how long does it normally take for them to need trimming in your experience?
But thankfully my ammonia and nitrites were actually at 0 today when I came back! Just hoping the puffers are still alive when I get there tomorrow. Also, I have a bit of an off-topic question: in the F8 article it says F8's beaks tend not to grow as quickly as other puffers - is it possible to avoid trimming their teeth completely with the use of snails and such, or is it still only a matter of time before trimming becomes necessary? If so, how long does it normally take for them to need trimming in your experience?