Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
signnet
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Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by signnet »

Hi Everyone

I have an Orange Saddleback Fucca. He is in a 75 Gallon Tank living quite comfortably with a GSP and a Figure Eight Puffer along with a Valentine Puffer.

When I first got him, he had a white spot on his eye. Recently one of his eyes looks like it has a bubble on the top of his eye. Is this from just damaging himself when he dashes under the sand. He goes really fast and then dives under the sand at which time all I see is his eyes. If he has damaged this one eye, will it heal on it's own or can I help it with something?

My other puffers are busy sifting sand so to speak for copepods and keeping my tank very clean. I have two canister filters on the tank for 100 gallon tanks.

"Concerned"
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by Pufferpunk »

{welcome]
From your description of this tank, I see so many things that will inhibit long-term success for these fish. What is the SG of the tank? I assume since you say there are copepods in there, it is a marine stank? If so, then canisters are the wrong kind of filtration. You need live rock & a protein skimmer on it. 2nd, you have 3 species with different requirements. The F8 prefers a very low-end SG of close to 8 & the Fugu will double the GSP's size. All causing the extreme risk of death, to the smaller fish, as puffers can be quite aggressive to different puffer species lining with them.1.003-1.005. The GSP is OK in mid-range SG up to SW. The Fugu puffer is a SW fish. Also. the GSP will grow 3x the size of the F7
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
signnet
Figure 8 Puffer
Posts: 159
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My Puffers: 2 GSP's
1 Orange Saddleback Fucca
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Location: Coral Springs, FL

Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by signnet »

Hi Pufferpunk

My Answers:

From your description of this tank, I see so many things that will inhibit long-term success for these fish. What is the SG of the tank? I have a 75 Gallon Saltwater Tank[/u]

I assume since you say there are copepods in there, it is a marine stank? YES[/u]

If so, then canisters are the wrong kind of filtration. The "canisters" are for 150 gallon tanks and are under the actual tank itself, there are two

You need live rock & a protein skimmer on it. There is a protein skimmer and there is live rock in the tank with live sand.

And, you have 3 species with different requirements. The F8 prefers a very low-end SG of close to 8 & the Fugu will double the GSP's size. All causing the extreme risk of death, to the smaller fish, as puffers can be quite aggressive to different puffer species lining with them.1.003-1.005. The GSP is OK in mid-range SG up to SW. The Fugu puffer is a SW fish. Also. the GSP will grow 3x the size of the F7. What is an F7? That's interesting, because I haven't had any problems for a number of months. The only problem I have is the FUGU's one eye has a bubble on it.
TheStig
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by TheStig »

SG isn't the size of the tank, it is the specific gravity of your water.

Obv PP had a typo, and the F7 meant to be a F8. She has very legit concerns for the health n wellbeing of your fish, so I wld address those as well that of ur Fugu to ensure good health n longevity.

Your F8 wont survive long in that tank, cos:
#1 It has different SG requirements than the other 2, needing a low brackish setup.
#2 It will become a meal for the other puffers eventually.

I won't go into the other issues that will crop up housing a GSP, Fugu and Valentini... not to mention going way over the bioload for that tank size.

I am not a vet, but if it were my fish in a community tank & it has this bubble growth, I wld isolate the Fugu in a QT immediately while waiting for a practical solution for treatment.
10 gallon: 1 dwarf puffer, 3 Otos, 1 amano shrimp

Don't let your wet friend suffer - PufferPunk
signnet
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Location: Coral Springs, FL

Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by signnet »

Hopefully I didn't offend anyone with me putting my answers in red, I just thought it would be easier to see my answers to each question. I am sorry if I upset anyone.

Also, yes I am familiar with SG, specific gravity. My Figure 8 and my GSP and Valentini have been living together for a year. And thanks to Pufferpunk, my sick GSP from long ago is happy and better from originally when I got him and he was in freshwater at the pet store.

My F8 and GSP, (Original fish) I have had in the same tank for 3 years. The Valentini, I got well over a year ago. I saw the Fucca in fresh water at the store, went to a Marine Aquarium store and they said it would be ok. He has been eating and all has been well. I noticed after getting him he had a small "white" dot on his eye. The dot disappeared, but now he has a bubble. So I was asking if because he dives into the sand if he had hurt himself and what can I get to help cure it or help it? Is there a treatment and how big of a tank, he is only one inch long
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itlagswrx
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by itlagswrx »

Not to start a war or be the negative nancy here, but I think you have zero clue on keeping fish period, yet alone getting into marine/brackish or various species of pufferfish. Each species requires different care, and most are not community fish, they are species only. You've been asked what your SG is and you only responded with the tank size, and then stated you know what SG is yet you never even stated what it was. What is your SG?

Like PufferPunk said:
GSPs thrive in brackish to full marine SG
F8s thrive in low end brackish SG
The FUGU and Valentinis are full marine SG

We have our needs, just like puffers. It's called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. If we don't have our basic needs met, we will not thrive. Same with pufferfish. And proper SG is one of their basic NEEDS.

Size of pufferfish plays a critical role also. They may seem all small and cute now, but they will grow, and some will grow to larger sizes than others, which will lead to the death of the smaller puffers. Puffers are very aggressive fish, and will use size to their advantage.

I have two pufferfish myself, a GSP which is in 1.025 SG and a Leopard Toby Puffer which is in 1.025 SG. Both are in different tanks, as the GSP is very aggressive and will grow larger than my Leopard. If I housed both, the GSP would kill the Leopard in due time, if the tank size of 30g doesn't do it first.

It's just common sense. I don't know if you got this idea from your LFS where you can put all these puffers together or what, but they need to be separated and placed into tanks that will justify their adult sizes. The tank you have right now is way to small, and I feel that because the fish are cramped and probably agitating each other, this is why you have the problem with the eye of your one puffer.

What are your water parameters by the way? And how often per week do you do water changes, and what percent of the water do you change each time? Puffers are scaleless, and don't fare well with high levels of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Puffers are very messy in general, and each puffer carries a huge bio-load. Why do you think the minimal requirement for one six-inch GSP is 30 gallons?

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh. I'm just frustrated for your pufferfish. The tank is small, too many species are housed together, and their basic needs are not being met.
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by TheStig »

Nobody is offended, not sure why it's a concern. Anyway, we're glad to get answers to PP's questions so others can offer advice based on feedback. But we hope u aren't upset with the suggestions offered because we are all about giving puffers the best care, and want to help keepers help them. It also is a learning experience for others.

Please answer the SG qn, as well as the water parameters. I will definitely isolate the Fugu, as stated earlier. The other puffers may attack it, and pop the bubble or injure/stress it out further. I also don't know if diving into sand is normal behaviour, or if it has parasites.
10 gallon: 1 dwarf puffer, 3 Otos, 1 amano shrimp

Don't let your wet friend suffer - PufferPunk
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by Pufferpunk »

Moving to the Hospital Forum, since this is a medical issue. Our tanks are an enclosed system & when any stress is involved, it's survival of the fittest. Usually, this means the newest fish is the most stressed, compromising it's immune system, causing illness. No, the sand diving is natural to this species, it wouldn't harm it. Keeping conspecifics together for several months, a year or even several years, is a very short time in the lifetime of these fish, which can be into their 20s. Fugu puffers grow quite large & DO become killers of any tank mates.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
signnet
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by signnet »

Dear itlagswrx

I was really a little taken aback with your comment, " I think you have zero clue on keeping fish period, yet alone getting into marine/brackish or various species of pufferfish." I am in here to learn like everyone else and to start a conversation like that was a bit insulting. People like me come to someone like you for advice, not to be insulted.

Pufferpunk my SG is 1.016

My fish tank gets changed weekly at a 50% water change. I only get marine water. I have live rock and marine sand that I was told to get when I initially had purchased my GSP and F8 which Pufferpunk helped make better. I have had the Valintini in with the F8 and GSP with no problems. As I stated, I keep up with the tank and the GSP & F8 along with the 1 year old Valtini have all been fine.

Maybe the plastic plants/media I have in there are not good for the Fugu and he is getting hurt by them. I have coral in the tank, it's not real, but did come from a marine aquarium store. I also have live rock.

My GSP is the one that got sick and again, thanks Pufferpunk, for saving him. He is the biggest in the tank but doesn't bother anyone.

Thank you Pufferpunk for all your help in the past. I guess I will learn more from the internet and talk with more people as I tend to have "Zero Clue" about any of this.
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by genevieve »

The thing about puffers is due to the areas they live in, they can survive in a wide range of salinities. Survive- not thrive. These are extreme conditions that puffers can live in for a period of time but not forever.

Kind of like how I can survive in 115F but after a few hours, I get heat stroke because my body can no longer regulate its own temperature. I don't know if you've ever experienced a heat stroke, but it's not a pleasant experience. I'm much more comfortable, happy, and healthy at 70F.

Your puffers will be healthier at proper salinities. That might be why you are experiencing the problems you mentioned before. Because your puffers are stressed due to extreme conditions.

You haven't been very polite in this thread, if you are wondering why you are not getting great reactions.
signnet
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by signnet »

Genevieve

Thanks for the information. I appreciate it and I didn't think I said anything wrong. My highlighted red was to show my answers, not yell and maybe sometimes I am not sure quite what to say in explaining things as I am not as technical as everyone here. As for problems in the past, Pufferpunk helped me when I purchased my first F8. He was sick, little did I know, when I got him, but Pufferpunk helped me get the air out and helped me nurse him back to health. That is the only problem I have had.

I am sorry and apologize to all. I will leave everyone alone.
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32776
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
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My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by Pufferpunk »

I hope you don't leaver our forum. It really has the BEST info on the web! There is SO much misinformation out there. Just that folks here are obsessed with their puffers & just want to be sure they get the proper care.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
signnet
Figure 8 Puffer
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 11:35 pm
Gender: Female
My Puffers: 2 GSP's
1 Orange Saddleback Fucca
Location (country): USA
Location: Coral Springs, FL

Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by signnet »

Pufferpunk

You have always been there for me and I have always gotten good advice. I didn't think I deserved to be insulted with the word "zero" and yet then another person says I haven't been nice. I don't know what I said to deserve negative comments and was only trying to explain what I have and what I am doing.

I am disappointed. Again, I am sorry and very much apologize between my red letter highlighting and not understanding the technical aspects. I try to search but have always come here for information. Sorry about everything and again thank you. You are a very nice and helpful person. :)

Thank you.
TheStig
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Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by TheStig »

Nobody finds your red highlights insulting, so I dunno why you keep bringing it up. The posters are trying to help, not pick on you, and if you are hurt by their desire to help, it's not intended that way. We are a community who is passionate abt Puffers and their well-being. So let's get back to helping the Fugu.

Have you tested your parameters? Did you isolate your Fugu? How about a picture of its growth?

Please provide an update on the Fugu so TPF can hopefully come up with more suggestions.

Also, as others have advised, please for the sake of your fish, do separate them. They may be fine now, or even the next few months, but as others have warned separately, it is not a risk worth taking.
10 gallon: 1 dwarf puffer, 3 Otos, 1 amano shrimp

Don't let your wet friend suffer - PufferPunk
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Pufferpunk
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Posts: 32776
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Orange Saddleback Fucca/Puffer

Post by Pufferpunk »

Please don't let some harsh person with a keyboard keep you from getting the help you need for your fish. One bad apple doesn't ruin the good advice you're getting here. I am not the playground monitor here.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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