Queries on treating DPs with Praziquentel

[paws_bells]

Hi all,

I just started treatment for my three new DPs for suspected IP. My puffs are all staggered in size and the two bigger ones appear healthy and plump (no sunken stomach, dark strings of poo, healthy appetite) whereas the smallest seems to have a bit of a sunken stomach and I have noticed semi-transparent, stringy poo coming out from him. His appetite appears normal, but since all three are relatively new to the tank (only over a week or so), I thought I should just treat all of them for IP as a preventive measure, since I do feed them live food regularly.

My question is this; now that I have dosed their tank with medication, do I continue to feed them regularly? With increased frequency? Or is it the other way around? Also, will the addition of Praziquentel in the tank affect my readings when I perform my regular water testing? Last but not least, is it possible to dose Praziquetel in live foods? I heard that it kills shrimps and molluscs (so I doubt it), but my DPs refuse to accept frozen bloodworms, even when soaked with Seachem's GarlicGuard, so I'm not sure what else to do to entice them into taking the bloodworms. On a side note, I fed them live tubifex yesterday, and they gleefully slurped those down until their little bellies were gently rounded.In this situation, how long can they go without feeding, keeping in mind that they are not full grown adults yet, but still in a juvenile stage?

Thanks for reading!

[G S P Freak]

Your DPs exhibiting pickyness and avoiding dead food isn't uncommon, many people who own dps complain their puffers only eat live food too, so your not alone! For best results, it is recommended that they eat food treated with praziquentel. I believe it is more effective for freshwater fish to eat treated food, but not necessary as they 'drink water', while it's absolutely necessary for saltwater as SW fish don't 'drink' water. Try tying a piece of dead treated food (maybe shrimp, I heard it's great at sponging up meds) with a piece of sewing string or fishing line and play around with it in the tank, to fool the puffers into thinking it is alive. IF you try this, I feel they might try to bite some chunks off. Treat their food for this like 5 days, adding garlic may entice them even more. I just treated my F8 for ips with Prazi + Garlic, and he seems to have taken the treatment nicely. GL, hope you manage to medicate them.

Btw, I don't believe Prazi will affect water test readings, you also should feed at the same frequency/amount.

[bertie 83]

Its the food that must be treated to get the best results.

[paws_bells]

Its the food that must be treated to get the best results.

Yes, um, that was a pretty recurrent advice that I read when researching for IP treatments, but I'm still having trouble getting them to take food that are not live, even when thoroughly soaked with GarlicGuard - and I haven't even added Praziquentel yet. >.< I guess I will just have to do the next best thing; continue to dose the tank with the meds and hope for the best.

I just did a 50% PWC earlier and re-dosed the water with Praziquentel, and after awhile, I saw encouraging signs that the meds were working - my littlest puff (the only one with suspected IP) was swimming around with a small string of black poop behind him. He was also quite alert, puttering amongst the foliage looking for snails to hunt. The other two are behaving as usual, doing their own things and didn't seem affected by the presence of the medication in their tank whatsoever. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but hopefully we will get through this with everyone on board and accounted for.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, guys.

[puffykid]

Treating the tank itself is probably not going to help much, except waste medicine. Since you are having a hard time getting them to eat, don't feed them for a 1-2 days first and then try it again another favorite food for dps are live blackworms and you can order those over the internet.

[Pufferpunk]

You're really wasting your $$$ dosing the tank. FW fish do not "drink" water.

[G S P Freak]

You're really wasting your $$$ dosing the tank. FW fish do not "drink" water.

Ahh, yes, I got it backwards SW drink, FW don't.. But like everyone says it doesn't really matter whether the fish will 'drink' the water or not, it probably won't get a good dose of meds anyways unless it consumes the meds. Have you tried the string-food method yet? I'm interested to hear how it works, and it's worth a try if you still can't find a way to get them to eat medicate foods.

[paws_bells]

Treating the tank itself is probably not going to help much, except waste medicine. Since you are having a hard time getting them to eat, don't feed them for a 1-2 days first and then try it again another favorite food for dps are live blackworms and you can order those over the internet.

Does this mean that I can dose live feed with Praziquantel? If so, that would really make my life a lot easier. I have access to live brine shrimp, tubifex worms and snails, all of which my three puffs really like. I just wasn't sure that dosing live feed would be effective since I doubt that they'd absorb the medication as well - it'd be something more like a dip than anything else, but at this point, I suppose I should just get what I can, huh?

@Pufferpunk: After doing research online, my original choice of medication to get was either Jungle Clear Tab or Tetra Parasite Guard, since they are both technically the same thing and contain Praziquantel and Metronidazole. Unfortunately, I'm unable to find either meds in the few, reputable LFS that I go to - following the feedback from the local forum for aquarium hobbyists online - it seemed that the LFS here don't stock those meds, so I will have to settle for the next best thing. With apprehension and little choice, I took on the intimidating task of sifting through the row upon rows of fish medicine displayed on the shelves, squinting at labels for fine print and shying warily away from dubiously packaged products. At last I settled on two possible sources - a solution based medication named Parzi-Gold whose main ingredient was Praziquantel, and API's General Cure powder. I wasn't sure if the latter treats IP, but I have been recommended by the assistants of both LFS that Parzi-Gold is the thing to use for dealing with IP, and so I decided to try that. Then this is where it gets confusing. The instructions for use on the bottle states to just dose the tank (a drop per liter) for the medication to be take effect. Skeptical, I asked the assistants if I should treat by dosing the food instead, but was told by both on separate occasions that just dosing the tank would be enough. So...which is which? I will, of course, try to do both (provided the puffs are willing to cooperate). Speaking of which, how many days should I 'fast' them before trying with the frozen bloodworms again? They just had a small feast of live snails yesterday morning.

@G S P Freak: Thank you for your suggestion! I tried the trick with the string yesterday morning before I left to work, tying a small piece of shrimp at the end and trying to entice them by lightly jerking at the string at periodic intervals. I also dosed the shrimp with garlic, and the little guys were attracted by the movements at first, but quickly lost interest when they realized that I was the one pulling the strings behind it (pun intended). Worried that their appetites might have been affected by the medication, I eventually gave up and threw in a few snails to feed them instead, and instantly, their appetites revived and they went after the food with gusto. I haven't fed them today yet, but they are taking turns swimming up to the glass to look at me expectantly, and I'm determined to fast them so that they will learn to take frozen feed instead. The next few days are likely to be as challenging for my self control as it will be for them in general; sorry, little fellas, but this is for your own good!

[scpion]

I had used the api general cure before, that's the only one I can find here. The other 2 that u mentioned I believe they do not bring in. I have luck feeding my DPs the little swimlets/legs or whatever u call those things that prawn uses to swim with. The prawn are for my bigger guys. Since those things are already pretty small, just need to squeeze the flesh out from there. I think the smaller portion makes the food more approachable.

[paws_bells]

I had used the api general cure before, that's the only one I can find here. The other 2 that u mentioned I believe they do not bring in. I have luck feeding my DPs the little swimlets/legs or whatever u call those things that prawn uses to swim with. The prawn are for my bigger guys. Since those things are already pretty small, just need to squeeze the flesh out from there. I think the smaller portion makes the food more approachable.

Wait wait, prawn as in those fresh tiger prawns that are sold in the wet markets? Can you elaborate further on exactly how you go about preparing those swimlets and then eventually introducing them to your DPs? I'd be forever grateful!

[scpion]

Ya.. those prawns that we eat bought from the market.. well, I am not that rich.. so, I use the cheapest grey prawn.. the swimlet have 2 parts to it the fleshier and the other is mostly shelly.. just cut the fleshier part with shell into smaller pieces( they are easier to cut this way) and soak in the med for a few hours. Not guaranteed to work for u but worth a try.

Btw I just visited seaview today and, they are so tiny.. its going to be quite challenging at the moment to introduce prepared food. Try not to use tubifex, they are known to carry nasty parasite and a nightmare to keep alive..

[scpion]

And, to me these guys are very easily distracted. I would turn off the filter when feeding so they can focus more on the food. Rather then the food being blown all over the place..

[paws_bells]

@scpion: Thanks for the tip, I will definitely give that a go after letting them fast for a day or two first. Never even noticed that there's flesh in those little swimlets until today, so I guess you always learn something new. How did you start acclimating your DPs to shrimp? Did you have to fast them first, or did they accept the prepared feed readily?

If possible, I won't want to feed my puffs tubifex too; I have read all sorts of horror stories about them online. The first and last time I bought them was last weekend. I purchased a tiny packet worth 20 cents, and then proceeded to do all sorts of ridiculous things to try to 'sterilize' them. I got home and rinsed the tubifex no less than five times with tap water, then soaked them in diluted Listerine solution (yes, mouthwash), then plopped them in a saucer of milk (Marigold Fresh Milk. 100% Fresh. 100% Australian.) to get them to purge their impurities, rinsed five times with tap water again, dumped them into a small bucket with an air stone, and then I threw ice cubes into their water to bring down the temperature.

They still died quickly anyway and proceeded to stink up the whole place. I flushed down the lot of them down the toilet bowl half a day later. -_- My puffs go crazy for them though, but if you weigh in the risks and the trouble, it's totally not worth it.

Also, you are right about DPs being easily distracted, especially in a heavily planted environment. Makes you wonder how them even survived in the wild, haha.

Oh, also regarding the API General Cure, you will need to dose it in their food right? I read that it was only for external parasites, but I clearly saw that two of their main ingredients are Metronidazole and Prazequantel, so I suppose it'd probably work to get rid of IP if ingested. Not to mention, that medication is not very cheap either, from what I saw at Seaview. Was it good? And what did you use it for?

In other news, I'm not sure if the snails that I threw into the tank had somehow absorbed a bit of the medication before being eaten by the DPs or what, but prognosis for the littlest puff is still good - he's still pooping black strings of fecal matter. Never thought I would be so happy to see fish poop, but there you go.

[scpion]

I have heard about the mouthwash method but its the first for me regards milk.. lol.. I used the General Cure for my Mbu some time ago.. mix a little powder in the food and let it marinate for a few hours then feed. Yes it quite ex, I think I paid abt $18 for a pack of 8 sachet. The poop is may not be the main indicator of IPs. The prolonged sunken belly is, ime. If they eat well and fatten up over time, I wouldnt worry too much what kind of poop they poop though.. The DPs at Seaview looked healthy enough. But I cant say the same for the rest of the rest of the other puffer species there...

Be careful of using med in water though, it may affect the puffer if used wrongly or potentially crash the good bacterial in the tank.

[paws_bells]

I have heard about the mouthwash method but its the first for me regards milk.. lol.. I used the General Cure for my Mbu some time ago.. mix a little powder in the food and let it marinate for a few hours then feed. Yes it quite ex, I think I paid abt $18 for a pack of 8 sachet. The poop is may not be the main indicator of IPs. The prolonged sunken belly is, ime. If they eat well and fatten up over time, I wouldnt worry too much what kind of poop they poop though.. The DPs at Seaview looked healthy enough. But I cant say the same for the rest of the rest of the other puffer species there...

Be careful of using med in water though, it may affect the puffer if used wrongly or potentially crash the good bacterial in the tank.

Yar, I know, right. Maybe I over sterilized and they died because the environment was too sparkling clean for them.

J/k.

Back to my puffs, the only symptom that I can objectively study now is their poop. Their appetites (for live feed) are very healthy, they don't have the sunken stomachs that I have I seen online when I used my Google-fu to search for images of DPs with IPs (not even S.Puma, my littlest one), and even though S.Puma was alarmingly pale prior to the medication, his coloring is gradually darkening again, and his appearance looks almost back to normal now. His (judging by the white belly, the coloration, and the conspicuous lack of forming stripes, I'm beginning to suspect that S.Puma might be a she) two other buddies, Chinook and Apache, seem normal as usual and are only in the tank to get high on Praziquantel, lol. I'm very relieved, but I'm still monitoring them closely for any changes.

I'm not planning to re-dose the tank anymore. The second time I did, I performed a 50% PWC first before doing so, but my 'lil helicopter fleet is doing good now, so I will just wait out the 5 days medication period and then prepare to rehome them to their new 17 Gal tank. Still, your advice is good. I will pay attention and do a water test later.

Yup, I think the DP stock in Seaview is pretty good all things considered. Most of the fishes they put out front usually look very good. The ones behind are perhaps a bit more worse for wear. I know what you mean about those poor marine puffers. It seems to me as though they are stuffed (individually) in tanks smaller than my 5 Gal and they don't look all too lively either. I'm not that familiar with the different marine species yet so I'm not sure if they are supposed to look that way or what. Did you see the GSPs and F8s that they put together in the same tank all the way at the end section? I always stop by their tank to gawk at them when I'm in Seaview (doesn't matter that I'm not able to buy yet, but I still go in to look-see), and on last Sunday, I remember seeing a pretty battered GSP in there, fins and tail completely in pieces. Don't even know how it was still swimming, and they were still preparing to acclimate a new batch of GSPs into the tank (saw the big plastic bag of eager GSPs floating inside). It was pretty sad, and I console myself by believing that the puffers will be in and out of the LFS in no time, as do most fishes in the trade.