Back Online--With Some Sad News

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!

Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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ILoveLola
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Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by ILoveLola »

Hey all, it's been like... three months at least since I've gotten onto TPF, I think. My fiance went on his first deployment, I graduated college, I started a new job (which I hate with a passion and I am trying to get the hell out of there ASAP) and a thousand other little things all compounded into barely any time on the computer.

I'm about to shut down for the night, actually, but it's been so long and as the title suggests, I have something of concern. I didn't put it in the hospital section because.. I don't know, I don't feel as though there's any curing that can be done? If I ought to move it, please let me know, I'm kind of just in a funk right now with everything that's going on in my corner of the world.

My betta, the happily named Fahaka, seems to have dropsy. From what I've read, it's more a symptom than it is a disease, but it can be caused by about a thousand different things. I first noticed about a week ago that he seemed to be getting bulgy, but he was still swimming happily and fine. I started treating him with Melafix, since I read it could be a bacterial disease, and I went a day without feeding him, and then gave him little bits of shelled peas since those help with constipation and I read it could be blockage from pellet food. He looked better the next day, and then today I noticed he is much bulgier, and very lethargic. For a moment there, I thought he was getting better. Sigh. So, any advice is of course welcome, but I'm more wondering--how long to I treat him before I need to do right by him? It kills me to watch him suffer, he's usually very personable and flares out his fins when I come home and say hi. He's so droopy. It kills me.

Anyhow, I still can't figure out if I should have put this in hospital or here--it's a little bit of both. Let me know if I ought to move it. Thanks in advance guys.
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hadla
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by hadla »

hi! you had me worried about lola =P but anyway, im sorry to hear about your betta. im always worried about mine getting it because my last one died from it. if it was me, i wouldnt keep him alive any longer so he doesnt suffer. :( *hugs*
Never trust big puffers. The fingers you save may be your own. -RTR
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ILoveLola
Figure 8 Puffer
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by ILoveLola »

Heh, I know Hadla, I realized after I posted it I could have been a little more specific. It just doesn't make sense to me, that as a kid I had bettas in little bowls not knowing any better that survived perfectly for years, and when I actually get into the hobby and put him in a 10 gallon like he needs, he gets sick :(
Gage and I get to email each other, and I'm very upset (really I think of Fahaka as his, he picked him out), but he reminded me that we have no idea how old Fahaka is, or how long he was sitting in a little cup on a shelf in filthy water. :( I'm pretty sure he's older, he was basically fully grown when he got him. I just don't want to have to do it, you know?
Where does one buy clove oil...?
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hadla
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by hadla »

yeah, i hated to do it to all the dps that had just stopped eating and got to skin and bones. i had clove oil, but threw it out a few months ago. whenever i had to put down a dp, i put it in a little tank water in my aquarium measuring cup then dropped a cupful of ice into it. once it stopped moving completely, id wrap it up a paper towel and put it in a ziploc bag and take it outside to smash it flat with a rock(usually crying the whole time). i had read somewhere that smashing it is the best way to make sure it wont wake up and suffer more. i know it sounds terrible and i hope i never have to do it again. :( oh geez i hate myself for it now x.x

edit: if you didnt live on the other side of the country, id offer you my betta. he has so much personality! he flares out at me AFTER i feed him lol he could care less about his mirror image.
Never trust big puffers. The fingers you save may be your own. -RTR
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Pufferpunk
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by Pufferpunk »

I PMed LGP, our resident betta expert.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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LilGreenPuffer
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Okay, well, first, you will want to stop the Melafix and do a huge water change. It damages the labyrinth organ, which is what anabatids use to breathe. Besides, it's not aggressive enough for dropsy.

Are you sure it's dropsy? You mentioned swelling, but not pineconing.

So, assuming it's dropsy, your options are:
-Continue to treat, switching to more aggressive antibiotics, on the off-chance that it's a symptom of something bacterial and not organ failure or a virus or something else that would cause this.
-Continue to treat him for pain/discomfort only - this would involve something along the lines of Epsom salts in the tank, possibly even periodic baths in a stronger solution. This can go on until he dies, you decide to euthanize, or he recovers (unlikely, obviously).
-Euthanize - I've done this before. I was losing a little six-month-old boy to dropsy, so I overdosed with Finquel. I based the decision on the fact that he had only a tiny chance of recovery and on my observation that he could no longer reach the surface to breathe. I decided there was no point in continuing treatment, and that he was probably not feeling too peaceful if he couldn't even breathe. Here's an article on euthanasia methods: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18520 However, if your betta is still able to move about and so forth and isn't acting panicked, you might prefer to let him die in his own time, or at least put off the decision for a while.

If you like, I can send you some Finquel, though you'd have to pay for shipping.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi


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goldielocke76
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by goldielocke76 »

My Freddy had dropsy as well =( I had to euthanize him, so I froze a bowl of water and the temperature shock got him-- it was instant, but heart breaking. I tried to treat until I saw him start to pinecone. Keep an eye on him, because when he starts to do this, it means that there's not much more to be done other than to make him comfortable. Good luck, and I am so sorry =(
5.5g: Pond snails
5.5g: Red Cherry Shrimp and Rams
10g: PZ the Pee Wee (DP), Ghost shrimp, Otos x3
36g: Luau the F8, Zebra nerites x8, sometimes a herd of ghost shrimp for food
60g: Perches the starry blenny, 1 watchman goby Snaps the l.c. hermit, 2 emerald crabs, 1 red crab, 2 turbos, 7 asteas, 2 nerites, 2 clown gobies and 2 firefish gobies (upgrading to a 90 gallon reef)

RIP Yoshi, you are dearly missed <3
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LilGreenPuffer
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

goldielock76, temperature (either hot or cold) is not a good option. I don't want to make you feel bad - what's done is done - but you should probably consider a different method if you're ever in that position again. It certainly wasn't the worst option, but there are faster and less painful ways to go about it. Check out the link I posted.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi


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Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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El Scorpio
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by El Scorpio »

The problem with dropsy is that even if the disease is cured, the kidneys often have totally failed and do not restart. I have, however, successfully treated dropsy affected bettas with Kanaplex - nothing else ever worked for me.
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goldielocke76
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by goldielocke76 »

LilGreenPuffer wrote:goldielock76, temperature (either hot or cold) is not a good option. I don't want to make you feel bad - what's done is done - but you should probably consider a different method if you're ever in that position again. It certainly wasn't the worst option, but there are faster and less painful ways to go about it. Check out the link I posted.
Well, not knowing what to do, I read the euthanasia article that we had in the Library. Not having any access to anything else but a pair of scissors (and I just couldn't do that) I went with the frozen bowl option instead.
5.5g: Pond snails
5.5g: Red Cherry Shrimp and Rams
10g: PZ the Pee Wee (DP), Ghost shrimp, Otos x3
36g: Luau the F8, Zebra nerites x8, sometimes a herd of ghost shrimp for food
60g: Perches the starry blenny, 1 watchman goby Snaps the l.c. hermit, 2 emerald crabs, 1 red crab, 2 turbos, 7 asteas, 2 nerites, 2 clown gobies and 2 firefish gobies (upgrading to a 90 gallon reef)

RIP Yoshi, you are dearly missed <3
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Pufferpunk
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Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by Pufferpunk »

Keep clove oil on hand.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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ILoveLola
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by ILoveLola »

Hey guys, I wanted to let you know I am reading what you are saying, I've just been stupid busy (excuses, I know :| ). Thank you so much for your help, and thanks PP for getting LGP on here for me. Everyone here truly is amazing ;)
Fahaka does not have signs of pineconing yet, I'm keeping a very close eye on him. It seems to still be the early stages. Some days he is very lethargic, when the swelling is very large. I have tried to get a decent picture of him, but he isn't feeling compliant. I'll try again in a little bit. He still eats fine. Most days, the swelling is not so big, and he is still happy to see me and swims around.

Scorpio... What is Kanaplex??
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ILoveLola
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by ILoveLola »

I looked up the Kanaplex... since I don't know what it is that is causing the dropsy, is it safe to use it? Is it worth the risk/is this something than can harm him if he doesn't have a bacterial infection?

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... FcQ8wIwAw#
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LilGreenPuffer
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My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)

RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond.
Location (country): United States
Location: Kentucky

Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

Puffers are scaleless, so you won't see pineconing.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."

Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi


Image

Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!

I AM A DUDETTE!

NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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hadla
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Re: Back Online--With Some Sad News

Post by hadla »

LilGreenPuffer wrote:Puffers are scaleless, so you won't see pineconing.
i thought you realized it but she is talking about her betta who is named fahaka =P
Never trust big puffers. The fingers you save may be your own. -RTR
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