i'm still very conflicted as to whether euthenasia is the right thing to do.
I don't want him to suffer, but if theres a chance that he'd be ok I can't just give up on him. I'm just seeing no signs of improvement, every time he does something that makes me think he's recovering, the next day its twice as bad as it ever was. With all the meds, improved water conditions, improved environment, good food, etc. His condition has done nothing but worsened.
What do you all think I should do? I don't know anyone who can take him, I don't know if anyone would even want to, he's helpless and I can't see john at the LFS having a 30+ gallon tank thats free to attempt to rehabilitate a single dying puffer. He has way to many hospital/orphan fish as it is.
GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
-
wagner7123
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 184
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:28 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): Usa, north pole alaska
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
no one can make that decision for you.
I'm pretty sure I have a blue thumb.
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LilGreenPuffer
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 5301
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)
RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond. - Location (country): United States
- Location: Kentucky
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
I believe that this is outdated now. This article is more recent: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18520Burgess et all (1998) do not recommend the use of ice or freezing water to euthanise fish, but Brown (2005) specifically describes a process that is acceptable for very small fish (under 5 cm in length). The fish is either (a) exposed to freezing cold water but is not in contact with the ice itself; or (b) placed in a container of normal temperature water from the tank and then that container is transferred to a freezer where it can cool down to below freezing.
LongGrain, I euthanized a fish once, a young betta with dropsy. I made that decision because A) I did not believe that he would recover and B) I believed him to be suffering significantly, rather than approaching death with only moderate or mild pain and fear. His immobility and defenselessness led me to think that he was undergoing stress and fear, and I guessed that the severe swelling was very painful. This was my reasoning. I used MS-222, AKA Finqel. Not everyone has access to that, though.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
-
J-P
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): Japan
- Location: Sasebo, Nagasaki, Japan
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
LongGrain wrote:i'm still very conflicted as to whether euthenasia is the right thing to do.
I don't want him to suffer, but if theres a chance that he'd be ok I can't just give up on him. I'm just seeing no signs of improvement, every time he does something that makes me think he's recovering, the next day its twice as bad as it ever was. With all the meds, improved water conditions, improved environment, good food, etc. His condition has done nothing but worsened.
What do you all think I should do? I don't know anyone who can take him, I don't know if anyone would even want to, he's helpless and I can't see john at the LFS having a 30+ gallon tank thats free to attempt to rehabilitate a single dying puffer. He has way to many hospital/orphan fish as it is.
As odd as it seems I have saved more puffers than I have personally kept. I have only had a couple losses. Some times thinking out of the box is the way to go but you have to play the hand you are dealt with. If you don't try a force feed / anal shot for IPs than your best bet is to put it down. The method is yours to choose. Going surgical at worst will put the puffer out of its misery. At best it will help and recover. Do what you choose is best.. there is no shame in that.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32776
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Chicago
- Contact:
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
Only other option to save this fish, is force-feeding. Difficult feat, with a small fish.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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LongGrain
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:38 pm
- Location (country): Green bay, WI, U.S.
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
well guys, I didn't have to euthanize him. He died on his own last night.
RIP Jerry.
RIP Jerry.
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LilGreenPuffer
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 5301
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:26 pm
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Dwarf puffer - Thumbelina (only mine in my heart now; she lives in CT with my friend)
RIP Inigo Montoya, Fezzik, and Vizinni.
RIP James Bond. - Location (country): United States
- Location: Kentucky
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
-
J-P
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): Japan
- Location: Sasebo, Nagasaki, Japan
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
sorry for the loss. We know you did what you could.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
-
LongGrain
- Figure 8 Puffer
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:38 pm
- Location (country): Green bay, WI, U.S.
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
Now its time to set my tank up better and let it run for a while before choosing the livestock I'm going to put in.
First order of business is to do a large water change to get the remaining melafix and any detritus/uneaten food off the bottom.
then tonight when I get paid I will be ordering a 50lb box of key largo and a bottle of Dr. Tims.
First order of business is to do a large water change to get the remaining melafix and any detritus/uneaten food off the bottom.
then tonight when I get paid I will be ordering a 50lb box of key largo and a bottle of Dr. Tims.
-
J-P
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 5626
- Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 am
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): Japan
- Location: Sasebo, Nagasaki, Japan
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
good stuff. get the set up done.. and then get the fish. +1 to that!
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZR55G ... pqlgec1A2Q
-
Puffer King
- Green Spotted Puffer
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:38 am
- My Puffers: Colomesus asellus
Lilly the Fahaka
Dwarf Puffers
Figure 8
Have kept in past,
Spotted congos
Red eye red tailed puffer - Location (country): Bristol , UK
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
Sorry to hear of your loss .........LongGrain wrote:well guys, I didn't have to euthanize him. He died on his own last night.
RIP Jerry.
'Rare do Tom agree in the rated room with the retard moo ! '
Free Elf Girl Pun 2012
Free Elf Girl Pun 2012
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32776
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Chicago
- Contact:
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
Is that Key Large rock live or dead?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
bertie 83
- Moderator
- Posts: 5298
- Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:28 pm
- Gender: Male
- My Puffers: lineatus R.I.P, South American puffer. Valentini puffer, porcupine puffer.
Non puffer
Danios, Tetras, Redtail Rasporas,
Harlequins, CAE's, Yoyo
Loaches, Clown loaches ,Eels, various shrimp, tangs,wrasses, damsels, chromis - Location (country): Brighton, England
- Location: brighton , england
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
So glad you can see the positive. Sorry for your loss. Im certain you will have many happy fishkeeping years going forwardLongGrain wrote:Now its time to set my tank up better and let it run for a while before choosing the livestock I'm going to put in.
First order of business is to do a large water change to get the remaining melafix and any detritus/uneaten food off the bottom.
then tonight when I get paid I will be ordering a 50lb box of key largo and a bottle of Dr. Tims.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
-
Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32776
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Chicago
- Contact:
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
So sorry... You really did try hard to save him.
You really did try hard to save him.You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
localchili
- Puffer Fry
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:12 pm
- Gender: Male
- My Puffers: Kirby, Green Spotted Puffer
Toaster (The Brave Little), Figure 8 - Location (country): United States
- Location: Chicago, Illinois
Re: GSP is still sick, fighting an uphill battle here.
I'm sorry to hear about Jerry. I wish you the best of luck with the new setup.