Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Ramses
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Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by Ramses »

Nitrate 0
Nitrite .5
Hardness 75
Chlorine 0
Alkalinity 120
pH 7.8
Salinity 1.004
50 gallon tank
1 fahaka puffer (6in.)
3 mollies (1 in.)
Fahaka's diet consist of earthworms, mystery snails, and crayfish- we feed 1 crayfish per week and worms as snacks
Water changes- 50% once a week, including vacuum and stirring up sand (due to conditions we have been doing 30% wc every day) i hope this isn't too much
Products- salt, stress coat
Changes- added mollies
Aquarium has been set up for about 5 months- took existing water from a good tank and live cycled it for a week before introducing Ramses to his tank- also used enzyme booster
Problem: This is our 2nd run in with fish lice. They appeared out of nowhere. We bombed the tank the 1st time (cleaned it out completely with bleach, boiled the sand, and let air dry, added sand and cycled again. We added Ramses and the tank was doing fine. A month later, we unintentionally left a crayfish in the tank for about a day before we had realized it had been eaten. When I moved the cave the crayfish was in the fish lice appeared on the insides of the tank glass.
We proceeded to do a 50% water change and began adding salt. We pulled out most of the sand to get rid of food particles. We also boosted the temp up to 80F degrees ( from 75F). I read on the forum to follow these steps and researched the net before doing anything.There wasn't a ton of info about argulus so I am hoping somebody will be able to help me help my puffer. Oh- also, Since we removed most of the sand our nitrites took a boost from 0 to .5 . We have been monitoring it with test strips. We added Fluval nitrate remover. If I am doing something wrong or if there is something I am not doing please let me know ASAP.
PS. I am currently looking for a bigger tank - I know that he needs to be in a more suitable environment.
Thanks
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sevenyearnight
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Re: Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by sevenyearnight »

Do you have an ammonia test? Your nitrite level indicates an uncycled tank. The beneficial bacteria in an aquarium adheres to surfaces, and is not present in the water column in any significant amount, so adding old water to a new tank is not going to cycle the new tank. Please read this: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f1 ... 48283.html
And here are some notes by RTR on this article:
RTR wrote:The article cited is okay except for a couple of things which are suggested and should not be.

1. The author suggests using 4 ppm ammonia initially and maintaining that throughout the process. That is too high. The process was developed to support at least 2x the total bioload which any given tank will support, and 3 ppm is that 2x maximum bioload figure. 4x is overkill, which would be okay it it were not also true that ammonia titers higher than 2-3 also slow down the development of the nitrite oxidizers. This can needlessly prolong the cycle time. 3 ppm is plenty to start, and as soon as the first ammonia reduction is noted, even that figure can and should be decreased, to 1.5 to 2 ppm. This will allow the nitrite oxidizers to develop more rapidly. If ammonia levels are at or above 5ppm, the cycle may never complete itself. So pay attention to the ammonia levels and keep them optimum, never excessive.

2. Plants are not appropriate to fishless cycling, as they require regular light to survive. Regular light during fishless cycling sufficient to support plants can easily result in massive algae attacks. Plant the tank after cycling is complete.

If the ammonia spike is longer than 2 weeks, you may do better re-introducing bacteria. If it is as long as 3-4 weeks, you may not have enough nitrite-oxidizers left for a normal cycle and should definitely re-inoculate bacteria.

A good fishless cycle is 2-3 weeks, but few hobbyists can do that the first time. It should always be 4 weeks or less.

Crushed coral and aragonite are not at all equal in solubility. Aragonite is far better than crushed coral, so should be the hardness agent of choice if it is available to you. The pH for cycling is best at and above 7.0, but that must, repeat must, be done only by boosting the alkalinity by aragonite or coral. Commercial buffers will not provide the alkalinity reserve required for fishless cycling.

HTH

Also, fish lice are a parasite that are on fish, this "lice" you are discribing just sound like the harmless kind that usually are present in newly established and/or overfed tanks.

What you can do immediately is buy a bottle of Tetra Safestart, and be sure that it is within date, and add it directly to your filter. As long as the product didn't suffer any mishandling during shipping/storage, you should be good to go.
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Re: Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by scpion »

+1 to above. U shouldn't be reading nitrite for a cycled tank, with proper filtration even after moving the sand. I also read that your sg is at 1.004.. Why is that?? Fahaka is a freshwater fish..
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Re: Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by PolishPuff »

scpion wrote: I also read that your sg is at 1.004.. Why is that?? Fahaka is a freshwater fish..
I was gonna ask that.

No salt should be added to FW tanks, accept in case of ich...
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Ramses
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Re: Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by Ramses »

Thank you all for your quick response. So- now that I put my puffer in a tank that wasn't properly cycled I can add Tetra Safestart and he will be ok? Am I understanding that correctly? This is my first fish tank and I wish I would done my own research before listening to the aquarium store guy who just wanted to make 50 bucks. I am going to take a sample of my water and put it under a microscope and show you exactly what these things that I believe to be "fish lice" are. Hopefully I can get a clear pic for you. I looked at them the last time and they actually had a heart beat under the scope. They kind of stick to the tank and swim in a circle like pattern. They are very small. I haven't been able to actually see them on my puffer but I did notice yesterday that he is scratching against things over and over- in what looks to me as a sign of him being tormented by something. I also noticed that his bottom fin was red and somewhat swollen- it looks irritated. Better today though. I added the salt because I was told to (by the lovely aquarium guy). He told me that if I have lice in the tank it was the safest way to kill them without chemicals. I'm going to go take a sample now and show you what I have- if it's anything. Be back soon.
Glad I found this forum :D
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Ramses
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Re: Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by Ramses »

Good morning. I am unable to post what I saw on the glass of my tank due to the extremely small size of what I thought was fish lice. It must be bacterial; however, this does not explain why my puffer is scratching his back up against things...I noticed some white spots that appear embedded on his back near his back fin. I am not sure if they are scars or something new. His bottom fin still is swollen and red. Not to the point of bloody- but definitely red and irritated. Should I put the sand back in? Do I have anything to worry about or am I just paranoid? He is eating just fine- he does not like the bare bottom at all. He has been in the corner of the tank for a few days. The salinity is down after a wc. The nitrites are at 0. I do not have an ammonia tester but will swing by the store and grab one today.
So here's my questions:

Does everyone have this "bacteria" crawling on their glass?
Do I need to worry about his fins and his white spots? (def. not ick)
How much sand should be in a 55 gallon tank?
Should I put it ( the sand) back in his tank right now with the possibility of something being in there?
Should I be seeing more definite signs of distress before I worry?
I would like to catch stuff as early if possible... :D
Am I a weirdo for putting my puffer's water under the microscope? :lol:
Last edited by Ramses on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by sevenyearnight »

Your puffer has ich: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28113&p=305482&hilit=Rtr+heat+salt
Your tank has small basically harmless inverts present in many new tanks. You may be over feeding.
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Re: Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by sevenyearnight »

Here is a link to help you identify your inverts: http://www.planetinverts.com/what_is_th ... arium.html
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Re: Argulus- sick fahaka puffer

Post by Pufferpunk »

This is probably what is on your glass: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29361

Here is the treatment for ich: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28113
My guess is if your SG is that high, he may not have ich at all. What are you testing the SG with? Can you get you get a close pic of the spots? Itching is a sign though.

Absolutely add Safestart to the filter, after doing an 80% WC. Did you get that ammonia test yet?

You do know the puffer needs to be upgraded to a minimum of 120g (preferably larger)?
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