I think my puffer is dying
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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Pufferpunk
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
I'm no expert on copper but there is copper in everything. That amount may not be harmful to your fish. Does anyone else test their tap water for copper? How much is in there? Maybe Neale knows?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
Re: I think my puffer is dying
Okay. I will go again with distilled water for now.
He was up earlier and was swimming around for 20 minutes so I think that is a good thing???
I got a syphon and everything I'm ready to get Puffy better.
The guy said the copper content was high and it was a bad thing- he was the guy at the store who has a bunch of puffers and he gave me the medication which happened to be the one that was suggested on here.
He was up earlier and was swimming around for 20 minutes so I think that is a good thing???
I got a syphon and everything I'm ready to get Puffy better.
The guy said the copper content was high and it was a bad thing- he was the guy at the store who has a bunch of puffers and he gave me the medication which happened to be the one that was suggested on here.
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nmonks
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
Jeni asked me to chime in here, but forgive me for not reading all seven pages of this thread. So if I say something someone else has already said, I apologise.
To start with, if all else fails, concentrate on performing small, daily water changes that don't alter the pH or hardness substantially. If the tank is new or for some reason the filter is working properly, daily water changes of 10-25% will make a huge difference. Forget about using bottled water. Total waste of time. Provided your tap water isn't too soft, it should be fine. Remember, DO NOT use water from a domestic water softener, if you have one. Ideally, you want around 10-15 degrees dH, pH 7-8 for most freshwater puffers unless you're breeding them. If in doubt, harden, don't soften, water by using Rift Valley salt mix at a 25-50% dosage. This will raise the carbonate hardness which is very useful if you have well water that experiences rapid pH changes once drawn from the tap.
Copper is toxic to all aquatic life, not just pufferfish, but the amount in tap water shouldn't be a major problem in most cases. If in doubt, use a water conditioner that removes chlorine, chloramine, ammonia and copper all at the same time.
Usually, you don't need to add salt to the water. But sodium chloride does reduce nitrite and nitrate toxicity, so if water quality isn't perfect, using 2-5 grammes of aquarium/tonic salt per litre can help greatly. This will also stop ick and velvet completely, and should reduce the risk of fungal and external bacterial infections.
Generally speaking, if a fish is swimming about and feeding, you have a good chance of surviving any crisis. Water changes are the key, since anything that dilutes a problem helps to eliminate that problem.
Cheers, Neale
To start with, if all else fails, concentrate on performing small, daily water changes that don't alter the pH or hardness substantially. If the tank is new or for some reason the filter is working properly, daily water changes of 10-25% will make a huge difference. Forget about using bottled water. Total waste of time. Provided your tap water isn't too soft, it should be fine. Remember, DO NOT use water from a domestic water softener, if you have one. Ideally, you want around 10-15 degrees dH, pH 7-8 for most freshwater puffers unless you're breeding them. If in doubt, harden, don't soften, water by using Rift Valley salt mix at a 25-50% dosage. This will raise the carbonate hardness which is very useful if you have well water that experiences rapid pH changes once drawn from the tap.
Copper is toxic to all aquatic life, not just pufferfish, but the amount in tap water shouldn't be a major problem in most cases. If in doubt, use a water conditioner that removes chlorine, chloramine, ammonia and copper all at the same time.
Usually, you don't need to add salt to the water. But sodium chloride does reduce nitrite and nitrate toxicity, so if water quality isn't perfect, using 2-5 grammes of aquarium/tonic salt per litre can help greatly. This will also stop ick and velvet completely, and should reduce the risk of fungal and external bacterial infections.
Generally speaking, if a fish is swimming about and feeding, you have a good chance of surviving any crisis. Water changes are the key, since anything that dilutes a problem helps to eliminate that problem.
Cheers, Neale
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Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32776
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Chicago
- Contact:
Re: I think my puffer is dying
Thanks for your help Neale. What I also wanted to know is if 0.4 copper is bad or pretty much normal for tap water?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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nmonks
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
0.4 what? The units matter. Test kits here in the UK are usually in mg/l, which is roughly the same thing as parts per million.
For what it's worth, European Union regulations set the safe upper limit at 2 mg/l, though normal tap water supplies are usually far below this. You actually can't state precisely what the "safe" copper concentration is because this depends on the alkalinity of the water.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa008
Note that if you use water conditioners that remove copper, you will still detect copper when using a test kit, even though the copper is in a "safe" form.
Cheers, Neale
For what it's worth, European Union regulations set the safe upper limit at 2 mg/l, though normal tap water supplies are usually far below this. You actually can't state precisely what the "safe" copper concentration is because this depends on the alkalinity of the water.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa008
Note that if you use water conditioners that remove copper, you will still detect copper when using a test kit, even though the copper is in a "safe" form.
Cheers, Neale
Pufferpunk wrote:Thanks for your help Neale. What I also wanted to know is if 0.4 copper is bad or pretty much normal for tap water?
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jus85411
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
what conditioners neutralize the copper? does prime?
Re: I think my puffer is dying
This has me a bit confused. It is a uncyled 10 gallon tank with a fahaka aren't several larger (50 % or more} water changes a day recommended? I understand nmonks didn't read back all the way. Just don't want to confuse the OP with that.nmonks wrote: If the tank is new or for some reason the filter is working properly, daily water changes of 10-25% will make a huge difference. Forget about using bottled water.
Cheers, Neale
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nmonks
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
You can change more water if you want, even 50%, but you do need to be careful not to expose the fish to dramatic changes in water chemistry and temperature. This won't be a big deal if you have city water that is hard and basic; such water is usually extremely consistent, and provided you add appropriate water conditioner and it isn't too cold, you can change as much as you want. But if you're on well water, or you have soft water chemistry, you can be less certain of steady water chemistry conditions. Act accordingly.
Rather than trying for a "cookbook" approach, think about what you're trying to achieve.
[1] Keep ammonia and nitrite levels as low as possible through regular water changes; the bigger the water change, the more ammonia and nitrite you remove, and the more of them you remove, the better.
[2] Not expose the fish to dramatic water chemistry changes, e.g., exposing it to pH 7.5 before the water change, and 6.5 afterwards.
[3] Not expose the fish to dramatic water temperature changes, e.g., 25 degrees C before the water change, and 15 degrees C afterwards.
[4] Not expose the fish to chlorine, chloramine, ammonia or copper -- this is done by adding water conditioner.
Keep all of these things in mind and you'll be fine. Usually smallish water changes daily are the best way to do this, but if you have a very big fish in a very small tank, you mightn't have any choice but to do big water changes. Still, I'd be loathe to change more than 50% twice per day, and I'd leave a good 6 hours between those water changes.
Cheers, Neale
Rather than trying for a "cookbook" approach, think about what you're trying to achieve.
[1] Keep ammonia and nitrite levels as low as possible through regular water changes; the bigger the water change, the more ammonia and nitrite you remove, and the more of them you remove, the better.
[2] Not expose the fish to dramatic water chemistry changes, e.g., exposing it to pH 7.5 before the water change, and 6.5 afterwards.
[3] Not expose the fish to dramatic water temperature changes, e.g., 25 degrees C before the water change, and 15 degrees C afterwards.
[4] Not expose the fish to chlorine, chloramine, ammonia or copper -- this is done by adding water conditioner.
Keep all of these things in mind and you'll be fine. Usually smallish water changes daily are the best way to do this, but if you have a very big fish in a very small tank, you mightn't have any choice but to do big water changes. Still, I'd be loathe to change more than 50% twice per day, and I'd leave a good 6 hours between those water changes.
Cheers, Neale
trekenk wrote:This has me a bit confused. It is a uncyled 10 gallon tank with a fahaka aren't several larger (50 % or more} water changes a day recommended? I understand nmonks didn't read back all the way. Just don't want to confuse the OP with that.
Re: I think my puffer is dying
I did a 50% water change last night and he was swimming around a bit so I thought that he was for sure getting better because he spent so much time swimming around.
The water was off a degree at first so I was so mad at myself when I put it in- but it heated up within a few minutes because of the tank heater.
I woke up this morning after having a nightmare about my ex (the one who neglected puffy and got him sick)
and Puffy was on the bottom of the tank and his fins weren't moving...and neither were his eyes.
I'm completely devastated I've been crying my eyes out.
It wasn't my fault was it? I was trying so hard
I hope it wasn't anything like the living conditions. He wouldn't eat at all. I would put shrimp in the tank and he was uninterested and I put snails in there too. He used to beat up all the other fish in the tank (he killed a $100 arowana) so I know he was fierce...
I'm super devastated.
Thanks for all your help guys.
I'm not going to get another Puffer. I can't go through this again. Way too heart breaking.
The water was off a degree at first so I was so mad at myself when I put it in- but it heated up within a few minutes because of the tank heater.
I woke up this morning after having a nightmare about my ex (the one who neglected puffy and got him sick)
and Puffy was on the bottom of the tank and his fins weren't moving...and neither were his eyes.
I'm completely devastated I've been crying my eyes out.
It wasn't my fault was it? I was trying so hard
I hope it wasn't anything like the living conditions. He wouldn't eat at all. I would put shrimp in the tank and he was uninterested and I put snails in there too. He used to beat up all the other fish in the tank (he killed a $100 arowana) so I know he was fierce...
I'm super devastated.
Thanks for all your help guys.
I'm not going to get another Puffer. I can't go through this again. Way too heart breaking.
Re: I think my puffer is dying
You say his fins weren't moving or his eyes, what about his gills?
I think he was to far gone when you got him from the boyfriends, you did try but just weren't informed enough at first to know better.
So sorry about Puffy. Maybe down the road you will consider getting another and can start out with all the right requirements and knowledge, so they will be able to live a long and healthy life.
Again sorry about Puffy i was so rooting for him.
I think he was to far gone when you got him from the boyfriends, you did try but just weren't informed enough at first to know better.
So sorry about Puffy. Maybe down the road you will consider getting another and can start out with all the right requirements and knowledge, so they will be able to live a long and healthy life.
Again sorry about Puffy i was so rooting for him.
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nmonks
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
Sorry to hear he didn't make it.
Cheers, Neale
Difficult to say. Most fish die prematurely because of the wrong environmental conditions, and most of the time the environment is wrong because the aquarist didn't plan things out carefully. Contrary to popular belief, puffers aren't especially delicate fish, and in fact are remarkably tolerant of water chemistry and salinity variations. Marine aquarists, rightly, consider them among the toughest fish kept in that side of the hobby, and freshwater species are, generally, pretty robust. I can think of a many more freshwater fish that are much more delicate, short-lived or prone to diseases -- fancy guppies, dwarf angelfish, mollies and neons to name just a few.IluvShoes wrote: It wasn't my fault was it? I was trying so hard
Rather than viewing things negatively, look at what you did, what your budget can stand, what equipment you own, and what level of experience you have. There are many puffers that are as easy to keep as cichlids and certainly less demanding than goldfish. South American puffers are very hardy, and the brackish water figure-8 puffers even more so. Carinotetraodon irrubesco and Carinotetraodon lorteti are both extremely tough, and I've seen the former sail through accidents that have killed other types of fish. So there are four puffers right there that anyone with at least basic fishkeeping skills can expect to keep successfully.IluvShoes wrote: I'm not going to get another Puffer. I can't go through this again. Way too heart breaking.
Cheers, Neale
Re: I think my puffer is dying
When I got him out of my boyfriends tank he was very sick and skinny. I tried so hard to keep him alive, but he just would not eat. I'm so mad at myself.
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J-P
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
I am sorry he didn't make it.
I know you tried your best. At least you will be referring back to this page again and again should you try again.
I know you tried your best. At least you will be referring back to this page again and again should you try again.
if you follow me, you avoid stepping in the crap that I just did...
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pufferpuggirl
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
I've just read through all of this and I am really sorry for the loss of your puffer.
"Puffer .... man's best friend?"
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lesleyanndunn
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Re: I think my puffer is dying
im sorry puffy didnt make it
it sounds alot like my first fahaka puffer as well
i wasnt going to get another one
all you can do is learn from this experience
and the best advice i can offer is
make sure you have the right conditions before getting another puffer.
right sized tank, cycled, and then the puffer.
i have another fahaka now, and hes doing great
so something positive came out of my first negative experience.
dont beat yourself up, you tried your best, which is all you can do in the end,
it sounds alot like my first fahaka puffer as well
i wasnt going to get another one
all you can do is learn from this experience
and the best advice i can offer is
make sure you have the right conditions before getting another puffer.
right sized tank, cycled, and then the puffer.
i have another fahaka now, and hes doing great
so something positive came out of my first negative experience.
dont beat yourself up, you tried your best, which is all you can do in the end,
