Because it's hard for us europeans to get our hands on some finquel, a friend and co-puffer owner of mine ordered a product called narcosis, made by "House of kata". This product is made for putting koi-fish to sleep for medical treatment.
Because I know puffers have a delicate skin, not having scales, nor guil-flaps(don't know how to put it), I thought maybe it's not safe for them.... It's for my figure 8's.
F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
Forum rules
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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bigfatfish
- Fahaka Puffer
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- Location: Devon, UK
Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
I got it with a prescription from my vets. Called MS222 here (UK). Not heard of the narcosis, & looking at their website, it does not say what is in the product, so unless you know more about it, I would not use it. If its for a one-off trimming, you could try the clove oil method?
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groovitudedude
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
Can you try to get a hold of clove oil? The thing I'm worried about is that if you add even slightly too much or have your puffer in there a big too long, it can cause serious damage, even death. You have to be very careful during dentistry.
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s13maximo
- Puffer Fry
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
I have done it once with clove oil but it is not a healthy product for fish. I do know about ms222 but found it rather elaborate to get a prescription when in the end you are doing the whole dentistry yourself. Personally I don't care much for manufacturers who don't list the ingredients on the bottle or their website.
I'll go the long route and get my hands on some ms222....
I'll go the long route and get my hands on some ms222....
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ladyonyx
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
In the long run, MS222 is definitely the best way to go. I used clove oil once on my sharpnose puffer and it worked great, but it can be pretty dangerous because of the risk of over-dosing your fish. Also, if used too often it can result in serious neurological impairment. So, MS222 is the safest way for sure
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pufferpuggirl
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
I'm about to do dentistry on my 3 SAP's. Never done it before, but figured I better learn seeing how I have all these puffers. Can't be depending on other people in an emergency.
Here in the UK has anyone tried a product by Kusuri called 'Masuizai' Koi sedate? Obviously it's used to sedate Koi, which I know are much bigger fish. I was going to use Clove oil, but now I'm hesitant because of what's been stated here about neurological damage. I wasn't going to sedate the fish totally, but just sort of make them drowsy. I'm really nervous about all of this, but my puffer's teeth are almost to the point where they will block his ability to get food in his mouth, I can see him struggle now, but he's not thin, so I know he's eating good, they all are -- but doing the trimming is inevitable. Has to be done.
Here in the UK has anyone tried a product by Kusuri called 'Masuizai' Koi sedate? Obviously it's used to sedate Koi, which I know are much bigger fish. I was going to use Clove oil, but now I'm hesitant because of what's been stated here about neurological damage. I wasn't going to sedate the fish totally, but just sort of make them drowsy. I'm really nervous about all of this, but my puffer's teeth are almost to the point where they will block his ability to get food in his mouth, I can see him struggle now, but he's not thin, so I know he's eating good, they all are -- but doing the trimming is inevitable. Has to be done.
"Puffer .... man's best friend?"
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bigfatfish
- Fahaka Puffer
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GSPs "Flash" & "Lionel" - in a 55 UK Gallon Bow front Marine Tank with sump. - Location (country): United Kingdom
- Location: Devon, UK
Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
I have done it twice using clove oil & once with MS222. (The first times I was in such a fluster that I didn't do it properly!) I work at a vets, so was able to get the MS222 fairly easily (although its quite expensive & I only used a pinch from the 25g pot). He remained much more immobile with the clove oil & was a little wriggly with the MS222 - so maybe I didn't use enough. Recovery was good with both products, but I wouldn't use the clove oil again with this fish, due to the reported side effects. Just make sure you have a steady hand & don't rush things!
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LilGreenPuffer
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
Someone else used a koi sedative, and the fish died. We're not sure if it was the medicine or the way in which it way administered, but I wouldn't risk it myself.
"I will give you a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt, or when the self becomes too much with you, apply the following test. Recall the face of the poorest and the weakest man whom you may have seen, and ask yourself, if the step you contemplate is going to be of any use to him or her. Will she gain anything by it? Will it restore her to a control over her own life and destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? Then you will find your doubts and your self melt away."
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I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
Found among the papers of Mohatma Gandhi
Come and visit http://www.thetriopsforum.com!
I AM A DUDETTE!
NEED NITRIFYING BACTERIA FOR YOUR NEW TANK? PM ME!
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Pufferpunk
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
If you're all in the UK, can't one of you get it (maybe BFF, since he works at a vet) & send some to each other?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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bigfatfish
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
SHE!Pufferpunk wrote:If you're all in the UK, can't one of you get it (maybe BFF, since he works at a vet) & send some to each other?
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bigfatfish
- Fahaka Puffer
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GSPs "Flash" & "Lionel" - in a 55 UK Gallon Bow front Marine Tank with sump. - Location (country): United Kingdom
- Location: Devon, UK
Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
I would be happy to send some of my MS222 powder to anyone in the UK who needs it. Don't think I could send it overseas though - the laws applying to prescription meds is too strict!
Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
So sending it to Belgium will be out of the question?bigfatfish wrote:I would be happy to send some of my MS222 powder to anyone in the UK who needs it. Don't think I could send it overseas though - the laws applying to prescription meds is too strict!
I once tried to order it from America, but there price for shipping it to Belgium was 100$. Kind of ridiculious if you know the bottle only costs 10-15$.
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Pufferpunk
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lorteti
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
Just don't get caught smuggling drugs!
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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bigfatfish
- Fahaka Puffer
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- Location: Devon, UK
Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
My pot cost me £36 - & I got it for cost price! Not sure how I would go about sending a small package of white powder out of the country!! I would be happy to if I could think of a safe way to do it!
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Nick
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Re: F8 dentistry, anybody know if this is safe?
Unless the chemical is restricted in some way, you can just send it. I've ordered white powders in small plastic bags from the UK to the US(Flubenol-15) and it went through just fine, listed as "aquarium additive" for customs.
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