Pirate is Dead - Help me prevent more- what is wrong?

[mrgreen]

I posted a few days ago that he was sucking his fin into his gill hole on one side. I had gone to take him back to lfs when he suddenly was fine again. I tested the water on Friday. The readings were, Amm.: 0.25, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate 10. I did a 50% w/c and went away for the weekend.

Today, I was out at a museum and my son called in tears. He said "Pirate's dead!" He was so upset. I told him to remove the fish. Pirate never really ate. I never saw him eat. 8Ball always got there first and most. Yet, he seemed happy and acted okay, except he wasn't agressive and I never saw him eat. When I got home, I saw Pirate in a small dish of tank water on his side. Definitely dead. At first, I thought it was 8Ball because he didn't look dark as usual. (Belly was white though.) But I looked in the tank and sure enough, that was 8Ball swimming around doing his usual hunting and swimming looking fat.

Nathan did say that he saw some pink coming out of Pirate's vent and pushed it back in. I never saw white come out of him and he never got very skinny like he would with IPs.

The thing I changed recently was the dragon goby. I added him less than a week ago. He's seemed happy and acting like he should. Nathan was afraid the dragon had bitten Pirate or somehow been the cause of his death, but I see no evidence of this. No bite marks, no fins missing, no concave belly, nothing. I'm wondering if he was just denied food so long so he finally died. He never seemed to fight for food. He just went on his way and never actively swam to get it later on. He did at first, though.

The other recently change is that my filter was off for over 24 hours. This is the only thing that makes sense. I had turned it off when I'd added some baby brine shrimp and forgot to turn it back on. I'd asked my 9-year-old to plug it back in, but apparently she never did.

I retested my tank just now and it is : Nitrite: 0, Nitrate 5, Ammonia 0.25 Does this mean I need to do yet another w/c so soon? I wonder what is upsetting my tank like this? I have had lots of my plants die and I feel like I'm constantly removing dead pieces. I am still waiting for my DrTim's bacteria to arrive in the mail, but may need to make an emergency trip to get Tetra Safestart at a store about 40 mins from here if that would help.

[coldmachineUK]

Sorry to hear about your loss

The other recently change is that my filter was off for over 24 hours.

I think that may well have been a contributing factor; the beneficial bacteria begin to die off after a couple of hours without aeration (i.e. water circulation), from what I recall. So, an entire 24 hours is not great. Are you the person with the ammonia coming out of your tap supply? I remember speaking with someone on here who had that problem. 0.25 = not good; it needs to be '0'.

[mrgreen]

Hi. Thanks. I just did another 50% w/c. No, I am not the one with ammonia in my tap water. I am still waiting for my DrTim's to arrive. LFS only has "cycle". My other F8 and my dragon goby are acting fine. Maybe the filter being off was just the last straw. I swear I hadn't seen him eat in days.

[mrgreen]

Forgot to add that the filter was off AFTER the first 0.25 ammonia reading. I really want my DrTim's to show up!

[Dadof4]

What was the ammonia prior to adding the Dragon? I doubt he was the cause but I'm wondering if you had a ammonia spike with the added bioload. That in combination with a puffer that wasn't eating well may have been too much stress on him. Watch your param's close and do water changes, 50% or greater, to keep the ammonia down until the Dr. Tims gets to you. As ColdmachineUK said, the bacteria in the filter will begin to die off in a few hours without a food source, in this case moving tank water. IF you trust your LFS you could ask for some established filter media or if you have a friend near by that has an established filter you could ask them also.

[pufferpuggirl]

I don't have any answers mrgreen, but just wanted to say that I'm sorry for your loss.

[mrgreen]

I went to the lfs and asked for some used filter media. I told him what kind of filter I have and he said he keeps pieces of media in one of their tanks and got out a piece to fit my filter. It looked kind of dry to me, but it was still wet. He put it in a plastic fish bag and tied it up. I took out my ceramic balls and put the sponge in on top of my other sponge. I hope this helps. It had better! The guy charged me $2 for it! Tank tested at 0 ammonia this morning before I went out. The guy told me that a minor spike in ammonia was normal, but then later he said he was sorry for my filter crashing. ???

[LilGreenPuffer]

Minor spikes shouldn't be normal. In a cycled tank, they just aren't supposed to happen unless something goes wrong.

That filter bit might be carrying diseases, so you might want to deworm soonish, once the cycling is worked out.

The pink coming out sounds like a prolapsed anus.

Sorry about Pirate. You must be really sad.

[mrgreen]

Ugh.... Now I have to get dewormer. GRR. Had I ordered the right stuff- DrTim's instead of Biospira- this wouldn't be an issue.

[coldmachineUK]

Where did the deworming come in as a necessity? I don't see that to be the definite cause of your loss here - you have an ammonia spike at 0.25 following a period of 24 hours without a working biofilter. Seems like that may have been the cause; at least, the last straw for a stressed puffer. It's not your fault (you didn't do this deliberately - accidents can, and will, happen - it's just life).

No need to treat your tank for something that's only a 'maybe', especially if your other puffer (8Ball?) is doing well still and the ammonia spike can be accounted for.

[Dadof4]

Where did the deworming come in as a necessity? I don't see that to be the definite cause of your loss here - you have an ammonia spike at 0.25 following a period of 24 hours without a working biofilter. Seems like that may have been the cause; at least, the last straw for a stressed puffer. It's not your fault (you didn't do this deliberately - accidents can, and will, happen - it's just life).

No need to treat your tank for something that's only a 'maybe', especially if your other puffer (8Ball?) is doing well still and the ammonia spike can be accounted for.

Agreed. Deworming should not even be an option nor necessity at this time. The key here is to get the ammonia down in the tank and save the other fish. The odds the new filter media carrying a parasite is very slim at best and using the "foreign" media to drop the ammonia outweighs that risk anyway. Need to watch for signs and symptoms of a parasite problem for the next few months...Yes, adding a dewormer to an already stressed, but not as stressed now, tank...not really.

Glad the ammonia dropped so fast for you Mr. Green! You're definitely on the right track!

[LilGreenPuffer]

I said after the cycling is worked out. And I said "might," as in, don't be surprised if you need to later. I didn't mean to have people take it as "DO IT. NOW."

[mrgreen]

Where did the deworming come in as a necessity? I don't see that to be the definite cause of your loss here - you have an ammonia spike at 0.25 following a period of 24 hours without a working biofilter. Seems like that may have been the cause; at least, the last straw for a stressed puffer. It's not your fault (you didn't do this deliberately - accidents can, and will, happen - it's just life).

No need to treat your tank for something that's only a 'maybe', especially if your other puffer (8Ball?) is doing well still and the ammonia spike can be accounted for.

Agreed. Deworming should not even be an option nor necessity at this time. The key here is to get the ammonia down in the tank and save the other fish. The odds the new filter media carrying a parasite is very slim at best and using the "foreign" media to drop the ammonia outweighs that risk anyway. Need to watch for signs and symptoms of a parasite problem for the next few months...Yes, adding a dewormer to an already stressed, but not as stressed now, tank...not really.

Glad the ammonia dropped so fast for you Mr. Green! You're definitely on the right track!

Ok. Fourth time I've tried to reply. Internet is acting weird...

Thanks to both of you!

8Ball is acting okay, but I wonder if he misses Pirate. He eats well and still acts like himself. The dragon has been sucking in rocks and spitting them back out.

I'd eventually like to get another F8, but I know it will be a while and there might be territory wars when that happens.

I need to have a burial for Pirate with the kids. He's in the fridge in a half-ziplock in tank water and he's starting to grow opaque slime.

[mrgreen]

LilGreen, just want to say thanks to you, too. You are always there to answer my posts no matter what. I don't have any hard feelings about the parasite comment. I understand the concern with it. I do trust my lfs in this regard. I've been there when they've treated their tanks when getting a new shipment.

[LilGreenPuffer]

Wow! That's great! What a great store.