Ehhh, teeth trimming....

[bazil323]

Eh, I think I need to trim my F8's teeth soon. I can see them a bit as he's swimming about. I try feeding snails, but he ignores the small ones that he'd have to crunch through. If I feed larger ones, he just waits until he can see the body and then sucks it out! He mainly ignores the live shrimp, but I think that's mostly because he hasn't gotten them in months as I was waiting until I was sure they could keep up a steady breeding rate.

I had been feeding the snails as mentioned in addition to frozen bloodworms, mysis shrimp, cut up frozen shrimp (from market), brine shrimp with spirulina. I recently added frozen krill about a month ago. Now I also feed frozen squid, clams, and tubifex worms (not sure if he eats them, but the mollies and bbgs do).

I know he wasn't getting enough meaty and crunchy things before, so I think I'll have to trim his teeth soon as I don't think his diet will trim it down enough now. Once I do that, he should be okay with just diet, right? I'm paranoid.

Also, I'm nervous about using clove oil. I've read and re-read the teeth trimming article in the Puffer Library, but I'm still nervous. I think I'll be okay though. Also, someone mentioned Finquel might be safer. Is that true? Will it work as well without the possible side effect of death? I could order that online, but I'd have to wait until Oct.2 when I get pain again. Of course, I haven't gotten the clove oil yet either. I'm gonna have to stop at the health food store to see if they have it. Otherwise, I might order online.

[Pufferpunk]

Yes, I will be adding info about Finquil to that article. Be sure to read the sticky about a DFS rebate in the Gen Disc forum.

[LinearChaos]

I've always used oregano oil, just a couple drops works great...haven't lost a fish yet, but I rarely have to trim teeth.

Good luck, this can be rather nerve racking.

[Pufferpunk]

Never heard that one before. With the amount of Finquel I use, this bottle should last me a lifetime--& longer.

[bazil323]

Okay, I think I'll order Finquel. I think I'll feel a whole lot better if I use that instead. Are there instructions for puffers on the bottle, or should I go by something else? Otherwise, the procedure should be the same, right? Thanks!!

[coldmachineUK]

Finquel is much easier to overdose with than oil of cloves, be aware of that. It may be less hard on the fish (faster recovery, no long term effects), and salt has no apparent effect on dosage/sedation, but you must be sure about what you're doing.

In terms of dosage you can request a fact sheet from the manufacturer, I believe, but I found this online:

Rapid Anesthesia - induction time 2-5 minutes. Maximum Exposure: 2-3 times induction period. Dose: Finfish 100-200 mg/l (100-200ppm).

Moderately Rapid Anesthesia - Induction time less than 15-20 minutes. Use: Spawning/marking/surgical operations where longer exposures are more important than rapid immobilization. maximum exposure: 2-3 times induction period. Dose: 50-60 mg/l (most species).

Sedation - induction of sedation occurs within 15 minutes. Reactivity to visual and vibrational stimuli, opercular activity are all decreased. Use: transportation Maximum Exposure: Variable* Dose: Finfish 15-40 mg/l (ppm), Ornamental (Tropical) 60-70 mg/l (ppm).


So, I think what you'll be after is 60-70mg/l (ppm).

One question I have though: it's unusual for F8 puffers to require teeth trimming. I have to periodically trim the teeth of my SAPs but I've had a pair of F8s for ~2 years now and never once had to perform dentistry. Are you certain you need to trim them? Do you have a closeup photo by any chance so I can take a look?

[Myaj]

Frank, my Figure 8, needs his teeth trimmed, so it does happen.

I really need to get over my fear of dosing him and do it too.. he has nematodes and I'm worried about his body's reaction to the sedative.

I will no longer use Clove Oil, after having a SAP not wake up from a reduced dose (every time it took him longer and longer to wake up).

[Pufferpunk]

My F8s have never needed trimming, nor GSPs, fahaka, miurus, etc. Just the SAPs & modestus.

[bazil323]

His teeth were already a bit long from the lfs. They only fed brine shrimp and flakes (for the danios). They seem better now that I pointed out that they should be brackish and fed other things.

Anyway, I've had a hard time finding appropriate foods for my F8 and my snails and shrimp are only just now able to have a steady supply. So, he hasn't had the best diet for keeping his teeth trim. I now have a good supply of clams, squid, mussels, shimp, as well as the live snails and shrimp. Part of the problem, it seems, is that he just sucks the snails out of the shell rather than crunching them.

His teeth aren't that bad yet, but I can definitely see his teeth all the time. I'm a little paranoid, so I want to make sure my bases are covered. I'm pretty sure that I could get them worn down with just diet, but....

What are the side effects of overdosing Finquel? Also, what's this about oregano oil?!? Never heard about that before (missed that the first time I read the post).

[coldmachineUK]

If you get the dosage of Finquel wrong then it becomes a fatal dose; so that's no good. Your fish simply wouldn't recover after going under.
I reported the WRONG dosage levels above. I now have hold of the manufacturers own instruction set and it says that for sedation of freshwater tropical fish you want a dosage of 30-50 mg/l. It may take up to 1440 minutes of immersion time, according to the instructions.

I'd focus on the diet to start with and see how you go: it may be that the snails, krill, mussels etc. will wear it down to acceptable levels within a month or so. If his teeth have grown even more by then, it may be worth DIY dentistry. But, I wouldn't panic yourself into doing it just yet. It's not unusual to be able to see their teeth, as such, so that's not necessarily a sign that your puffer needs dentistry.

It's your call: you can see your puffer more clearly than I can ( ) but it's not a particularly pleasant experience for fishkeeper or fish alike, so if it's not really necessary then there's no need to go through the ordeal; that's all I'm trying to say

[BobRivers]

Hello
Can anybody supply a pic so I can see what the teeth look like when they are overgrown, I have read alot about this problem but have never saw how over grown they can get.


Thanks.

[Pufferpunk]

There is a pic in the Puffer Dentistry article.

[bazil323]

Heh, I've been trying to feed a couple small snails every day. It seems he's finally realized that the tiny ones can be eaten too. Anyway, I had dumped in a few last night, and he hadn't found all of them by morning. This morning I defrosted some squid and brine shrimp and dumped it in. I wasn't really paying attention, but I didn't notice anything wrong with Grun. About 5 minutes later, I walk by and go "What the heck!?!" He had gotten a small snail stuck in his mouth! With his slightly long teeth, he looked really funny. I took a couple pics, and I'll try to post them soon. Anyway, I was getting a bit worried when he couldn't get it out after a few minutes. I had to finish getting ready for work, so I couldn't watch him. But, he did manage to free himself of he obstruction without problem. He's fine.

[Pufferpunk]

That's a pretty sure sign of long teeth.

[bazil323]

I wondered about that. He hadn't had any trouble with that before (that I know of). I couldn't get it to display the images, so here's the links to the pics: Side view: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27302368@N ... otostream/
The funny one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27302368@N ... otostream/

Isn't he cute?