Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
Forum rules Read this before posting!!
Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.
1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.
2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.
3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)
4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.
5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.
We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.
While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.
Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
My Fahaka has been acting oddly for the last week or 2- seems to be either going up and down the glass at one end of the tank or darting about uncontrollably and crashing into things (like the sides, the heater, into the gravel or jumping out the top). It is really quite worrying as usually he seems so happy and attentive - now he spooks very easily.
He is about 4" - 5" long, shares the tank with a large Plec but they take no notice of each other. Tank is 260 (UK) Litres (will be going to a bigger one later in the year), it was well cycled for a few months ahead of him going in. I've had him since January and no problems until this. I change about 20% of the water each week and dechlorinate the water first. No other products go in the tank.
Just did the tests (with a proper kit), all are top notch I believe:
Ph 7.5
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <5
Temp 75
Last 20% change was Monday, he was acting like this before then, probably been doing this for about 12 days.
He still feeds in the morning, most days a defrosted mussel - and seems to be fine at this time, not sure what happens during the day but by the evening he seems really stressed - he isn't interested in any further feeding, whereas he used to want soemthing else in the evening (like a shrimp or a snail).
I'm really worried about him, surely he must be hurting himself when he hits things? - mostly face first
I cant say as to any illness, but with the small for a fahaka size of tank you have and only 20 percent changes I find it hard to believe your nitrate figure. Can you get a sample tested at your LFS?
In Telford where I live its higher than that from the tap!
I would be tempted to do a big 75 percent water change.
Can you put the plec elsewhere as these tend to be nocturnal and could be stressing him overnight.
I have to agree with Bosshog on both counts, I would think that the territorial plec is whacking him while you are not looking, mine used to smack my 15 inch Mbu so they take no prisoners
Thanks chaps, I'll get the water tested again at the lfs but I do think my readings are pretty good, they compared well with the lfs last time and the tank has always been very stable - but certainly worth checking out. I know I'll need a bigger tank, but with the size of the fahaka at the moment I'm not convinced that the water quality is detrimental - I will get it checked and do a big change this weekend though.
As for the plec, this could be something I need to look into - certainly in the early days he did give the fahaka the odd whack if he was being bothered by him, but we hardly see the plec at all now. He tends to stay in his tube all day - so what goes on at night I can't be sure of. We were thinking about moving him on anyway as he doesn't do what we hoped he would (i.e. eat leftover food, algae etc) and we never see him - so he may be better off elsewhere.
My Puffers: 1 x Ceylon + 1 x GSP + 1 x stars and stripes (juv) -Marine (Non puffs-) 4 x clowns 1 x Oscar-Tropical 3 x Convicts-Tropical 1 x Map Turtle-tropical 2 x Plecs-Tropical 2 x goldfish
hey grubbster... your on PFK aren't you... recognise the name as well as the puffer..
Maybe your puffer is reaching adolescence.. It must happen in puffers, it happens in other animals including other fish... oscars can get really like that after a year or so... then mellow out again with age...
my oscar has taken to slamming against the glass sometimes.. and he's in a 90G tank..!
puffer people.. any thoughts? Viable opinion or just rubbish..?
Definitely get your water tested, home test kits can go out of date and if they are not shaken aggressively enough then they can distort readings as the liquid as each bottle is used up...
can't hurt to do a 50% water change...
what about your tank temp .. all mine really jumped for a week or so when we had our mini 'heatwave' ... maybe that has unsettled hiim?
1 x 90G Juv stars and stripes puffer, Ceylon Puffer + GSP + 2 black clowns
1 x 30G LPS Reef
1 x 30G 1 x Blind goldfish
Hi, yes I am on PFK but I find that things are a bit more specific and relevant here. We wondered about hormones! He does seem to be trying to bite his reflection a lot - like a demented budgie! Maybe there is something in that. Tank isn't in sunlight at all so doubt the temp changes a lot. I'll see if lfs want the plec back and they can do a water test for me. I will do a larger than usual water change this week (although it is a pain lifting and pouring over 100l in buckets!). Update to follow over the weekend.
My Puffers: 1 x Ceylon + 1 x GSP + 1 x stars and stripes (juv) -Marine (Non puffs-) 4 x clowns 1 x Oscar-Tropical 3 x Convicts-Tropical 1 x Map Turtle-tropical 2 x Plecs-Tropical 2 x goldfish
grubbster wrote:Hi, yes I am on PFK but I find that things are a bit more specific and relevant here. We wondered about hormones! He does seem to be trying to bite his reflection a lot - like a demented budgie! Maybe there is something in that. Tank isn't in sunlight at all so doubt the temp changes a lot. I'll see if lfs want the plec back and they can do a water test for me. I will do a larger than usual water change this week (although it is a pain lifting and pouring over 100l in buckets!). Update to follow over the weekend.
These are great http://www.pythonproducts.com/aqprod.html The python make water changes sooooo easy.
Available in the UK. If you cant find one pm for a shop link (not sure if I can post the link)
Thanks for the Python suggestion - I hadn't seen these before so may be a good investment.
I took a water sample to lfs today and thankfully their results matched mine (using a different kit to me) 'one of the best qualtiy samples we have ever seen' so very happy with that. They also suggested not doing water changes so frequently so that the chemistry remains more balanced/stable. Removing the plec will also help to maintain the balance if the water changes are less often (he does poo a lot!) and also stop any terratorial issues that may be taking place, the lfs are happy to take him back (they were quite fond of him before I bought him!).
My Puffers: 1 x Ceylon + 1 x GSP + 1 x stars and stripes (juv) -Marine (Non puffs-) 4 x clowns 1 x Oscar-Tropical 3 x Convicts-Tropical 1 x Map Turtle-tropical 2 x Plecs-Tropical 2 x goldfish
so it must be a hormone thing... or a territory thing... or a tank size thing....
guess just work on those and see how you go....
just checking there are no signs of ill health at all right? No whitespot type things... juat want to rule out flashing/scrapping through skin irritation...
1 x 90G Juv stars and stripes puffer, Ceylon Puffer + GSP + 2 black clowns
1 x 30G LPS Reef
1 x 30G 1 x Blind goldfish
grubbster wrote:
...They also suggested not doing water changes so frequently so that the chemistry remains more balanced/stable.
I have been told this over and over by the fish stores and on other sites. We have cut the water changes back to about 30% weekly instead of 50%. In marine tanks with a skimmer, sump, and perhaps LR I know you do not need to do WC as often. Why is it we are told not to do weekly water changes by most who do not have puffers?? The LFS does not count as keeping puffers because they would never do all the work involved in changing water weekly and they do run sumps. Every fish store I have talked to says Do Not Do Weekly WC's because it messes w/ the water chemistry. I do not test before and after a WC but I do test every few weeks and the parameters are pretty stable. I see some nitrate fluctuating some since the start up of the 55g tank over a 4 month period. Is there truth to statement in bold in the quote???
grubbster wrote:
... Removing the plec will also help to maintain the balance if the water changes are less often (he does poo a lot!) and also stop any terratorial issues that may be taking place, the lfs are happy to take him back (they were quite fond of him before I bought him!).
Hopefully this does the trick for your puffer. I actually was reading today on a fish disease site that spooking can be a sign of aggression in the tank.
55g-2 green spotted puffers 1 year old Nov 08!
20g-5 leopard danio,4 whiteskirt tetras, amanos, nerita snails, 2 neon tetras
The fish store I work at says that to people a lot, too, clearly, if your water quality is one of the most perfect they have ever seen, the way you are doing it is right. Parameters are definitely NOT more stable with fewer water changes, quite the opposite - fish wastes will acidify the water, eventually causing PH drop, and even short term, nitrates build up to much higher levels with infrequent water changes. I think a lot of this comes from shocking fish out of old tank syndrome and killing them. A tank has sat for 8 months without a water change, the PH has gone down to 6.4, the nitrates are way off the test kit, but the changes occured so slowly, the fish in the tank are used to them, so while it is shortening their life, it's not a short term threat. Then, worrying about their neglect, the fishkeeper changes out half of the water, dumping in their tap water which has no nitrates, is PH 7.2, and is much less hard because topoffs from evaporation have concentrated a lot of minerals in the tank. Of course, half the fish die, and this is blamed on the big water change, and "everything was fine" before they changed water. When I discover someone has an old tank with no water changes I have them start very slow. This one lady came in the other day with a 30 gallon with 2 angelfish in it which was 2 years old and had NEVER had a water change. One of the fish was on his side and bloated, so I asked about water changes, and she said "I add water whenever it goes down more than a few inches." But she had never heard of taking water OUT of the tank and replacing it. I told her to do a 10 or 15% water change that week, then 25 % or so the next week, then 50% the week after that, and about 1/3 every other week thereafter. I think old ideas die hard, the manager of the store still insists that you shouldn't change any water while a tank is cycling, or you will "mess it up" and it will take longer. If asked, I just say that I disagree and they should feel free to look up what I tell them on the internet and see the various opinions on the topic, but that studies have shown that the bacteria you need are in the filter and gravel, not the water, so if your fish are gasping for air, you ought to change the water, you're only going to make the fish more likely to survive.
No matter how magnificent your successes or devastating your failures, the worlds' approximately 5 billion impoverished people could not possibly care less.
Well Captain Slow (the big plec) went back to the lfs this afternoon, he didn't put up much of a fight. It was interesting to see him changing colour once I put him in a yellow bucket, I didn't realise they could change for camouflage purposes - cool! Anyway he went in and by exchange I came away with a bag of shrimps to stock up my puffer larder tank with
Already we can see a difference in Clarkson, he doesn't seem so nervous - cautious but no longer looking like he is panicking. He has taken a few swims to the opposite end of the tank which he hasn't been doing lately (plec used to be there), so fingers crossed we are on the mend, it is nice to see him starting to get back to his old ways again.
Todays update - great news he seems to be much better, almost back to his old self He's using the whole tank again and looking for our attention most of the time (he likes a fuss!). You can see is istill being a little wary but his confidence is growing. I just dropped a couple of shrimps in but he doesn't seem interested in them at the moment so still not quite 100%, but much better than he was.
