Fast Growing Sores Took Out 2 Of My GSPs. What Could It Be?

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WJL3
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Fast Growing Sores Took Out 2 Of My GSPs. What Could It Be?

Post by WJL3 »

Hello Puffer Friends. I have lost 4 of my 5 GSPs in the last 2 weeks. 2 displayed classic internal parasite symptoms but 2 suffered from large fast growing sores and I'm curious what other puffer keepers think the culprit could be.

Tank: 75 Gallon. Aragonite sand. dry rocks, fake plants and home made Mangrove roots( PVC wrapped in masking tape painted with acrylic paint and coated with pricey Aquarium epoxy (MAX ACR Epoxy). Cycled for more than 3 Months (Seachem Stability and flakes for NH3 source @ 1.005 Salinity). Algae presence is good, but not out of control. I plan to add real red mangroves to the HOB filter (Seachem Tidal 110).

Tank parameters:
PH 8.2
NH3 0
NO2 0
NO3 0
Water Source: 50% tap water treated with Prime, 50% RODI (My Tap has a TDS of 150-200ppm and PH can vary from 8 to 9)
Salt: Tropic Marin Pro Reef Meersalz Sea Salt @ 1.005 Salinity (I use a Hannah digital salinity checker and calibrate it often)
Temp: 78 F
Water changes of 26% every 7 to 10 days.

Food: Mostly Mysis and Bloodworms. (1 feeding per day) Clams, snails and live ghost shrimp a little more sparingly.

Online fish stores kept giving me refunds after I put in an order for GSPs. They were never actually in stock or "not fit to ship". I finally found a store outside of Denver that carried brackish puffers and could order more.

I ordered 5 GSPs expecting to lose 1 to 2 during quarantine. They came in early in December. I drip acclimated them over 4 hours from fresh to brackish. Then they went in the 75 Gallon by themselves. GSPs were from 1.5 inches to 2 inches. End goal was to put 1 or 2 into one of my reef tanks once they got big enough and keep 2 in the 75 gallon mangrove tank.

Their tails were in super rough shape initially but slowly got better. I let them acclimate to the tank for a week before giving any quarantine medication. No signs of IPs.

One GSP was a big time bully the first week and claimed 50% of the tank as his own. This subsided once I fed live ghost shrimp and they all hunted together. Aggression and chasing declined by 90%.

This is where I made a mistake. I had planned on treating their food with flubenzanol like BeFishy uses in her GREEN SPOTTED PUFFER FISH CARE video on YouTube. It's like the top GSP video on YouTube. But I couldn't find the kind she uses anywhere. The shop that sold me the GSPs suggested I treat the water column instead. I thought I should trust them since they were selling puffers of all kinds and made sure I was putting them in brackish conditions eventually. They suggested and sold me Bactershield by Fritz Mardel. The main ingredients are Chitosan, Cinnamon Oil, D-Limonene, Geranium Oil, Pine Oil, and Rosemary Oil. All 5 GSPs made it through treatment of dosing every other day for a total of three treatments. They didn't love it but they still ate and their tails were constantly improving. (during this treatment the cycle did take a hit as was expected and I saw roughly .15 ppm NH3) All 5 still survived. I thought this treatment would suffice for parasites but it's really just for fungal and bacterial issues and "protects against parasites". It's not for actually killing parasites.

A couple weeks go by and one GSP starts losing appetite. His head stays nice and green but his back is very dark. His belly is still pure white. The darkness really comes on after a water change that I had to use 100% tap water because I did water changes on 2 of my reef tanks, and used all of my immediate RO water. I also notice the GSP is running into things. I notice this for a couple days and then treat with one dose of Bactershield. The one medicine I have and think is good for them. The GSP is found dead the next morning.

They stop eating the live ghost shrimp. So now the ghost shrimp are living in the tank with the puffers. (and still are)

4 days later the next puffer to go down gets a nasty spot on his side and it grows by 3x in just one day. He perches himself atop the mangrove decoration and is breathing heavy. He had eaten fine the previous day. I remove him to a small hospital tank and he soon passes.

The next one to go exhibits the same behavior as the first. No appetite, hiding a lot, breathing heavy on the bottom. But instead of getting dark he gets very pale then goes back to normal coloring.

I do more research and find great info on this forum. Low and behold I already have 3 boxes of General Cure but didn't know I could give it to them. I also pick up some Prazi Pro for flukes in my Koi pond. I hit the tank with General Cure and soak bloodworms in Prazi, because that's their favorite food. They don't touch the food and somehow the once frozen boodworms started multiplying all over the tank. Small worms in tubes attach themselves to every rock and decoration. I perceive them as IPs at first but now that the worms have eaten much of my algae and turned into little flies I can assume they were the bloodworms. I also added an air stone and raised the temp from 78 to 80 degrees F and raised the salinity from 1.005 to 1.006.

A couple days pass and I lose the smallest one that turned pale and then my biggest and most resilient and active GSP got a sore on his side that grew rapidly and took him out in a day and a half. Both of these deaths happened after all 75 gallons were treated twice with General Cure.

My last GSP is still kicking. He is quite a moody little guy. Hiding some but also begging for food and being a curious little puff.

I intend to get a couple more GSPs in a month or two and I am also setting up a similar 75 gallon tank for Figure 8s.

Any advice or comments are appreciated. Especially regarding your specific success with quarantine and the medicines listed on the forum library.

Pictures can be viewed here: https://imgur.com/gallery/1sCVk2r
They include the tank, one healthy GSP that was lost, and a couple others with the sores or spots and the one that turned pale. I have also included pictures of the worms and the flies they turned into. I found very little info online about bloodworms reproducing and turning into flies in fish tanks especially in brackish conditions.
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Re: Fast Growing Sores Took Out 2 Of My GSPs. What Could It Be?

Post by Pufferpunk »

Hi, sorry for the late response. It was a lot to read & I had to look up all those ingredients in the Fritz product you used. I couldn't find anything about using these on fish but something tells me it could be quite caustic to their skin, gills, eyes, etc. If nothing else, this product would only serve as an antiseptic, similar to Melafix. I'm not sure what you were treating for? It seems you were looking for an antiparasitic but used an "anti-bacterial" product. Did the sores appear before or after using this product? I would love to see a pic of the sores but that image link doesn't work. I am totally against using General Cure. For bacterial issues I suggest https://www.pufferfishenthusiastsworldw ... blue-baths
IPs would be treated with Prazipro on the food.
How's the last fellow doing?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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WJL3
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Re: Fast Growing Sores Took Out 2 Of My GSPs. What Could It Be?

Post by WJL3 »

Thanks for your response. Yes I was looking to treat with anti-parasitic as a preventative during quarantine, but used anti-bacterial based on advice from the LFS.

In short, I had one GSP die from IP symptoms, then one died from a fast growing sore, Then another died from IP symptoms followed by another death from a fast growing sore.

The sores appeared 3 weeks after using the initial round of Bactershield anti-bacterial. One GSP developed a sore before treating General Cure and another GSP developed a sore after. It's hard to corelate any of the medicines to the appearance of the sores.

My Last GSP is still kicking and doing well.

Since food soaked in Prazi was never eaten, should I try Fenbendazole in the food for new GSPs during quarantine?

And is the primary reason for opposing the use of General Cure is because it is treating the water column and not their food?

The previous image gallery link should work. It is set to public, and numerous 3rd parties have verified they can view the gallery on Imgur. I will also post an image directly on the forum, But I disliked how users must create an account to view any image on this forum.
20210114_132457.jpg
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User avatar
Pufferpunk
Queen Admin
Posts: 32145
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Fast Growing Sores Took Out 2 Of My GSPs. What Could It Be?

Post by Pufferpunk »

https://www.facebook.com/groups/pufferf ... 2716930099

This appears to look like Vibro, which is a fast-killing flesh-eating disease. I've only seen it on Porcpuffs though.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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WJL3
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Re: Fast Growing Sores Took Out 2 Of My GSPs. What Could It Be?

Post by WJL3 »

Interesting, the sores were definitely fast growing. I think Vibro could be the culprit.
Thanks for information and FB link. It is much appreciated.
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